They maybe running at loss after all the salaries and stock comp, but tokens are in profit now.
Yes, sure, right now it is ... but that's NOT how it got here.
There are trillions invested to recoup and at most billions in sales. It doesn't add up to tokens making a profit any time soon.
But if all the AI companies stopped training new models, they would all instantly become profitable (and stick around)
The thing that makes them unprofitable, is having to compete (which means training models). If / when enough companies exit the market, the cost to compete goes down and you end up in an equilibrium
Eh, the AI companies still have lots of datacentres. For the guys who funded with equity, they could collapse down to just running those as utilities. (For the guys who funded with debt, they'd have to restructure.)
From the customer's perspective, this situation shouldn't result in a cost spike. (Consolidation, on the other hand, would. But that's a separate argument from the one the article attemptes to make.)
But if there's no more competition, there's no more incentive to keep prices low, which will also be reflected in pricing.
That will only happen when the bubble bursts and those companies will exit by going bankrupt
But this isn't "a ticking time bomb for enterprise." It's an issue for the AI companies' investors.
But within that big pie, the "IT-related" investments grew 15.7% whereas non-IT actually shrank 2.0%.
It's like selling dope, once they're addicted, a dealer could turn the screw on them
If things don't end up working out a lot of people have already been (and in the future will be) paid. It's the investors that will lose out, not the subscriber.
Steal from, you know, people who actually work.
Inference compute is definitely scaling fast, but to scale RL, training and R&D compute also needs to scale hard. I don't think it's obvious that inference will overtake R&D/training, unless there's a reputable source that states that.
It’s unlikely that Claude is proportionally that bigger and more expensive to serve so profit margins on inference must be pretty decent
Even if they are “profitable” how many Uber drivers are “profitable” because they aren’t correctly calculating asset depreciation. Maybe these guys are doing the same thing.
Maybe it’s a lot of people who already had GPUs for crypto mining, and they’ve moved over to this, so that if they need to grow and buy new GPUs the costs would dramatically grow.
To an extent maybe, but that market is almost entirely commoditized already. Besides Cerebras and maybe Groq (which already charge a slight premium) all the other providers are more less interchangeable.
> Maybe it’s a lot of people who already had GPUs for crypto mining
I’m not sure the type of GPUs that were most popular for crypto are at all useful for LLMs?
If there’s a few providers subsidizing, that’s the price ceiling. Everyone who wants to compete has to subsidize.
Now if this market had been operating for years, I’d say that it’s likely all these companies are profitable or close to it. But the market is so new and there’s so much hype, I find it very plausible that none of these guys are making a profit and they all hope to just hang in until all the subsidies go away.
> I’m not sure the type of GPUs that were most popular for crypto are at all useful for LLMs?
There’s some overlap. I’ve definitely read about people repurposing.
How many times bigger could Opus be than GLM or Kimi, it’s certainly not proportional to the price
it’s highly unlikely OpenAI/Anthropic are not making decent amounts of money from inference.
Nobody is whispering about anything. Everyone is loudly assuming what's convenient for their thesis. Even if you have access to the books, the accounting isn't straightforward–there are yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer.
> It is the absolute last thing these firms would keep secret
If you find an optimisation strategy that you don't think your competitors have, you absolutely keep your margins secret for as long as possible. Knowing something is possible is the first step to making it so.
Obviously I, like basically everyone else here, don't have access to Open AI or Anthropic books so it's just guessing based on public available evidences, but "tokens aren't being sold at a loss" does not imply there is any profit.
And, even if there is some profit, it needs to be big enough to at least pay back the capex spendings and finance the next model iteration.
/o\
They might be sold at-compute-cost, but that of course ignores training, salaries, and everything else.