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Comment by beastman82 | Hacker News Reader

Well yeah they're presenting an irrational argument to benefit the few.

> Well yeah they're presenting an irrational argument to benefit the few.

The only few that should benefit are the owners. If a few workers try to benefit, they're greedy bastards who would be pounded down.

When owners try to lock down industries with government restrictions, we also oppose that. In this case, society as a whole is harmed by what the unions are demanding. It means everybody, including other workers, get less affordable goods and services. Greater affordability through automation is the sole means by which wages and purchasing power increase over time.

I would also be opposed to laws making it illegal for anyone to compete with the owners.

Unions are great and all, but they cannot solve all problems purely by maximizing their demands. If the resulting business (with the unions and the costs of satisfying them) is no longer able to offer a compelling marketplace offering then all the unions accomplish is destroy their own jobs. This is actually nuanced (meaning there is probably an ideal balance where both parties can enjoy benefits, but too far in either direction is either toxic to the workers or kills the business) but unfortunately the discussion is generally conducted with this kind of flippant emotional appeal. I think that’s why unions are in massive decline. A ton of unionized jobs died because the businesses couldn’t compete, and businesses work to avoid unions at all costs because of that reputation. A lose-lose for workers.

A key thing to understand about unions is that they're a lot of effort to set up and manage, and the time spent on it is in addition to your normal work hours. They don't just spring up out of nowhere.

If you're looking at a union there's a specific reason it formed, and probably a specific person in management behind that reason.

> A lose-lose for workers.

There's an ancient saying in labor: "the only thing worse than a union is no union."

>A ton of unionized jobs died because the businesses couldn’t compete, and businesses work to avoid unions at all costs because of that reputation.

Do you have a source for any of this beyond "a corporate spokesmouth said so"?

ok hope you stick to this stance when ai comes for your job

i think your sarcasm detector might be faulty

yea have to send it to the shop to get it checked out

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