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Comment by profdevloper | Hacker News Reader

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I suppose in some sense ICE is a law enforcement group; but witnessing their wanton behaviour in Minneapolis, ramming vehicles, breaking into homes without a warrant, use of disproportionately deadly force, … it’s a stretch to imagine that one is interfering with “the good guys” who should otherwise be serving the law with care and restraint. Neither of the citizens murdered in Minneapolis were interfering with law enforcement, at least as I define “law enforcement” and “interfere.”

No, that’s not how things work in the United States. Law enforcement officers don’t have a general license to kill. Genuine interference with law enforcement is a crime, but if an officer kills someone for doing it, that’s still murder.

No, they don't, but real life is messy and the good guy doesn't always win. When you intentionally put yourself in a chaotic situation, bad things can happen. It's unclear if deadly force was justified in either the Good or Pretti cases, but that's for the courts to decide -- they were certainly avoidable and needless tragedies.

If the courts were to decide either of those cases, I would defer to their judgment. The Trump administration has made it clear that they're going to try and stop those cases from ever reaching a court, though, so in the absence of a court judgment I'm going to keep calling them murders.

Guilty until proven innocent

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a principle we apply in criminal courts, as a control on their quite extreme power to kidnap you and put you in a cage if they decide you're guilty. It doesn't apply even in civil court, much less personal judgment. I don't have to wait for some third party's approval before I'm allowed to plainly describe what I've seen and what I think about it.

I do think it's important to be fair-minded. Minnesota is conducting investigations, and perhaps they will conclude that it wasn't murder after all; if they do then I would defer to that judgment as well.

> Guilty until proven innocent

This is a description of your stance on Alex Pretti.

This is presented as some kind of proverb, but it's actually quite useless. If you don't interfere with law enforcement, bad things can also happen. The only reason Cliven Bundy is still ranching his cattle on that land in Nevada to this day is because he "interfered with law enforcement activities."

This isn't to advocate a choice one way or the other, but your statement is facially devoid of actionable information.

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