Comment by matkoniecz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by matkoniecz | Hacker News Reader

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> I think you are missing a bit from that story when presenting Poland as a victim

And you in turn seem to miss similar quotes from Lenin et all, salivating at subjugation of Poland.

> The USSR returned the territory that Poland grabbed in the 1920

Yes, in 1920 Russia wanted to conquer Poland but failed then. They managed to succeed in cooperation with Nazi Germany.

How that disproves my point that Russian invasions were bad for Poland?

> Czechoslovakia ceded to Poland small patches of land in the Spiš and Orava regions

Yeah, that was footgun though earlier story is also of interest

> provided the Red Army would be able to cross Polish and Romanian territory; both countries refused.

geee, I wonder why (see say Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact that proved such suspicion 100% correct)

If Russia invade in XXI century and they will manage to find some pretext (returning the territory that Poland grabbed in the 1920 or something), how that will make things less bad for Poles?

again, I am not making point that Poland is 1000% innocent and Christ of nations or something. Though if you want to compete on who was less murderous, did less genocides and was less oppressive Russia will not win at all.

>And you in turn seem to miss similar quotes from Lenin et all, salivating at subjugation of Poland.

Enlighten me? Meanwhile I'll remind you that Felix Dzerzhinsky[0], who created the predecessor of KGB for Lenin, was a Pole born in Russian Poland. Vyacheslav Menzhinsky[1], his successor, was a Pole too.

>How that disproves my point that Russian invasions were bad for Poland?

You just don't call what happened around 1920 a Russian invasion, it was yet another Polish attempt at building its own empire that backfired. Especially, if you cite it as a reason for thinking Russia is likely to invade Poland

>geee, I wonder why (see say Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact that proved such suspicion 100% correct)

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you don't cooperate with USSR against Hitler, having signed non-aggression pact with Hitler just 4 years earlier[2], don't be upset that USSR finally signed its own non-aggression pact with Hitler after years of trying to form an anti-Hitler pact with France and the GB (who cited Poland objections as one of the ways to drag its feet).[3]

I can't recommend enough the article "Fiasco: The Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance That Never Was and the Unpublished British White Paper, 1939–1940" [3] with "trilingual, multi-archival evidence" to anyone who wants to understand the reasons for the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

>If Russia invade in XXI century and they will manage to find some pretext (returning the territory that Poland grabbed in the 1920 or something), how that will make things less bad for Poles?

Sure, it'll be bad for Poles, just like if Poland burns Moscow once again it will be bad for Russians. But we are not discussing fantasy scenarios?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Dzerzhinsky

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Menzhinsky

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_declarat...

[3] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07075332.2018.14...

> Meanwhile I'll remind you that Felix Dzerzhinsky[0], who created the predecessor of KGB for Lenin, was a Pole born in Russian Poland

And? You seem to be commenting like I claimed that Poles are nation of saints.

And from "Bolshevik revolutionary and politician of Polish origin and leader of Soviet secret police" description it is clear he was awful and evil human being.

Letting such person to end in position of authority and create not one secret police but three of them is utter failure of society in which he was living (Russian one).

Though it is noteworthy that likely most evil people of Polish origin (and maybe Poles if they were really Poles) did this in position of authority of Russian state. Not Polish one.

> If you don't cooperate with USSR against Hitler, having signed non-aggression pact with Hitler just 4 years earlier[2], don't be upset that USSR finally signed its own non-aggression pact with Hitler

non-aggression part was not a problem, the problem was in secret part about cooperation

Poland and no point signed treaty with Hitler to jointly dismember Russia, while Russia signed treaty with Hitler to jointly dismember Poland (and other countries)

(yes, I know about Zaolzie)

>And?

And "Lenin et all" included these Polish gentlemen which casts some doubt regarding you claim about "salivating at subjugation of Poland".

>in secret part about cooperation

There is nothing about cooperation in the secret part[0]. Just that Hitler stops at approximately the Curzon Line and doesn't take the territory that Poland grabbed from the corpse of Russian Empire. In fact, Soviet troops didn't move into Poland until German troops stopped advancing.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...

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