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Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

It would be if it wasn't hijacked by the scammers and the criminals.

Although it did get large donations from the scammers and the criminals, they didn't get control of it, with the result that it still saves about 50,000 lives a year: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/in-continued-defense-of-eff...

It only looks that way because you don't live someplace where malaria is a major problem today and don't need a kidney donation.

I'm not sure if you posted that link to make fun of EA or because you genuinely believe all the claims made there.

The ones I've investigated turned out to be correct. It sounds like you may have investigated some and found otherwise? If so, which ones?

But you can't credit them to EA, it's not as if they invented the concept of altruism.

It's a bit like religion: you claim that all the good stuff is yours and all the bad stuff is the evil people and then you get people to give you lots of money to do more good stuff. But meanwhile you use that money in the first place to enrich yourself.

There are lots of these tech cults, EA, 'The Long Now', The Rationalists and the Freezer Fanatics, all of them have three central themes: gullible people, money and promises and concepts that are so far over the horizon that they can safely make claims in the knowledge they'll never be found out.

That's a very common theme in religion in general. And it works, lots of people fall for it. If you want effective altruism in your life go do something that is actually good or directly (and anonymously) give your money to people in need.

The things described at the link I provided can be credited to "effective altruists" because "effective altruists" are the ones who did them. Just like the scams and crimes — even though the scammers and criminals aren't in charge of EA, as you falsely claimed, they certainly belonged to it.

It's not a list of altruistic things that have been done by random people that the EA cult is trying to take credit for, as you seem to be implying; it's a list of specific things done by specific EA cultists and EA cult organizations, so you can credit them to EA. (EA is pretty much just a marketing name for the "rationalists". Although technically you may be able to find a few people who claim to belong to one but not the other, I found a Russian printed copy of Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality on a conference room coffee table at Mox.)

It seems fair to criticize EA for the harm done by its cult aspects, but not to claim that they aren't doing the beneficial things they are in fact doing. I'm not a big fan of the guilt-by-association switcheroo you're trying to get away with here, either.

It's like the Catholic church in roughly exactly the same way: 'some of us have engaged in misconduct but look at all the good we're doing'.

Yes, "some of us have engaged in misconduct but look at all the good we're doing" is exactly right. And, at least in the case of EA, this is not special pleading; they are advocating, explicitly and at extremely tiresome length, that everyone should judge themself by exactly that standard. This is, however, in conflict with Catholic dogma.

The EAs have saved about 40 people's lives since your first comment in this thread. I sure haven't done that. How about you?

You are seriously comparing an individual with a large organization?

No, I did not, though pro-rata I've done my bit and then some. But I also did not commit any crimes. And you can't be equally sure about those associated with EA.

It's really just one weird dude and his followers. There's maybe 1000 people in the world who would say, "Yes, I'm an Effective Altruist." By the broadest definition, you could stretch the number to 13000: https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/about-us/members says, "Our community includes 11,274 lifetime members pledging ≥10% of their income, plus 1,721 trial pledgers, together making up our 12,995 strong giving community." But a large fraction of those "members" wouldn't even recognize the term "Effective Altruism" (which doesn't appear on the GWWC front page or their "About Us" page), much less realize that they were supporting it with a lifetime pledge.

On average, each of those 13000 people have saved a dozen or two lives.

As for crimes, I can't be sure at all that you haven't committed any crimes. And neither can you! If you've ever been to the US, you almost certainly have!

It all starts with credentials in hiring, for future reference.

First there was Uber (Illegal cab company)

Then AirBnB (Illegal hotel)

Then crypto (Money for criminals)

Then came AI (Plagiarism engine)

I'm sure Effective Altruism will find a usecase!

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