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Comment by lsllc | Hacker News Reader

A company that I worked for would hire foreign grads out of school on F-1 visas with zero experience; they’d come on board using the OPT extensions (good for up to 3 years) and then file for H1Bs immediately. If they didn’t get it they’d file again the next year and so on. If they get to year 3 of the OPT without getting an H1B they would be sent to an office in Europe where they work for a year and then get transferred back on an L1.

FWIW H1B recipients immediately get started on the PERM/GC process (if they wish), with only whatever new-grad level plus 0..2 years experience they have accumulated thus far.

Meanwhile job ads are posted in the kitchens as required by law (and I’m sure the local newspapers) with ~$80K salaries even though I that way way below what they paid even for new (US) grads [in the Boston area]. So no surprise no one ever applies for them (if they even see it).

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Every H1B I know is both underpaid and unable to change jobs. The companies that use them the most are those that squeeze their employees the hardest. They work hard and are incredibly smart and capable, but they have no power to push back on the boss asks them to come in on nights and weekends.

It’s a fiction, like the idea that contractors would prefer contracts over full time employment. Its a less-privileged workforce with fewer protections to benefit the companies.

I’m pro immigration, and that means actually paying people for their expertise rather than semi-indentured workers. Too often companies get all the benefits of the workers without having to pay them. The fact of all the staffing agencies put in alongside Microsoft. Of course, the current admin couldn’t care less about any employee, citizen or migrant, they’re just using it to try to show their base they care. The dems have done absolutely nothing when they are in power either.

There are exceptions, but in 20 years in both SF and Seattle you can basically set your clock to this being what’s happening.

  > they have no power to push back on the boss

As an American I notice this also more broadly affects the company culture. Most of my peers (who are mostly non-Americans) are afraid to speak up. It even causes the (few) Americans to typically not speak up. So it just creates a culture where management is surrounded my yes men. I actually don't think that's good for anyone. Not the American workers, not the foreign workers, and not the company. Your job as an engineer is to talk back to your boss. They aren't the engineer, you are. Even if the boss is an engineering manager. We all know that there's a huge difference in how someone understands code between having written it and just read it (LLMs are certainly blurring this line now...)

IDK, with a lot of things it seems like big companies are just incredibly myopic. When I got my PhD people interviewing me used to love to say "well in industry, we do things that actually matter" (a weird premise) and boast about how efficient they are. Yet IME I just see an incredibly suboptimal setting. They routinely waste tons of money to save pennies and the attitude of "I just care that it works" really just ends up with "it looks like it worked but it's actually broken". But that's the obvious result if you surround yourself with yes men and don't let people do their jobs

It is good for the company. You get foreign employees to threaten local employees and foreign employees have no say due to restrictions.

Whats the cost of setting up new offices in developing countries like India and China vs sponsering here. It seems setting up office offshore is much cheaper, the only issue seems to be the upfront cost and know how which is an issue for starups but not for a reasonably established software business

  > It is good for the company.

I disagree

  >> IDK, with a lot of things it seems like big companies are just incredibly myopic.

It may be good for the company in the short term, but that does not mean it is good for the company in the long term. I don't buy the argument that it is good for the company in the long term

It has been very effective at keeping the wages low. Why else would every tech company lobby for H1B. Even Elon Musk post anti immigration but loves H1B

> It’s a fiction, like the idea that contractors would prefer contracts over full time employment

That may be uncommon but it is not a fiction. I worked as a contract for one of the telco companies for a couple years by choice. My boas would regularly ask about making me full time, I was getting paid a bit more as a contractor, didn't need the benefits, and my work was otherwise identical to what it would be full-time. Why bother?

Maybe some of the idea comes from Europe, where contractors can earn maybe twice the income of a similar regular employee?

Maybe? Though presumably it would be the EU enforcing it rather than the US.

Sounds very complicated and onerous. Any idea why the company would go through all of that process?

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