Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

I believe that you believe that you do not, but you are.

"Europeans buying oil and gas from russia" -> that is mostly one or two hold-outs that are in russias camp, pretty much like Orban/Hungary.

"Maybe global energy markets are more important than Ukraine and Russia’s war is?" -> yes, they are, but they have nothing to do with each other. Conveniently though, this is the link that Trump wants you to make and Trump is pretty much a mouthpiece for the Kremlin.

> Which capabilities are being weakened exactly? Can you point to specific capabilities?

GP never responded and I don't blame them, but taking the risk that you really do not know and are not 'just asking questions':

Ukraine needs both defensive weapons to stave off russian attacks on their citizenry and offensive weapons to make sure russias capacity to wage war is diminished. Both of these rely to a large (but ever decreasing) extent on foreign countries. Lots of that stuff comes from the United States and even though the United States has not made good on the promises it has made it now also effectively puts its thumb on the scale to favor the Kremlin, for instance by diminishing Ukraine's capability to control its drones and by withholding armaments that were promised by the United States, and paid for by the EU.

If you are even remotely interested in what is going on there this should not be news to you, if it is then you should review your sources.

The problem here is you are making two fundamentally flawed assumptions. I shall spell them out:

The first flawed assumption is that an argument, discussion, or point that disagrees with you must fundamentally be a Russian talking point. That I can tell you is just untrue.

The second flawed assumption is you are assuming that something which appears to be “pro-Russian” must also be judged solely as Donald Trump serving as a Kremlin talking point.

> Ukraine needs both defensive weapons to stave off russian attacks on their citizenry and offensive weapons to make sure russias capacity to wage war is diminished.

There is an assertion “if only Ukraine had more weapons” that would somehow “end the war” yet when asked to provide specific examples, there is a failure to do so. At best the provision of additional defensive missiles, which of course are sorely needed, simply protracts the stalemate. Ukraine does not posses the manpower (please feel free to cite specific, reputable sources if you disagree) to retake territory stolen from it by Russia and Vladimir Putin.

Even in the case of “the US is withholding admissions” is framed incorrectly. We need those munitions too. We have to make tough choices. We cannot just give or even sell to Ukraine all of our weaponry when we need it versus Iran and maybe China.

> If you are even remotely interested in what is going on there this should not be news to you, if it is then you should review your sources.

This comment applies to you, not me. You mistake, continually, a disagreement with “someone is on a different side than me” and that undermines your position, causes disagreement about the overall goal (get Russia out of Ukraine or at least bring peace and stability), and plays directly into Russia’s desire to sow division. You act like you know more than others about the war, but the United States has a lot of fish to fry, so to speak, around the world. Ukraine is just one of those fish. Iran and stopping them is in my opinion far more important. We face trade-offs and challenges. When someone mentions those and you try to then accuse them of “pro-Russian talking points” you only undermine your own position and goals.

> You act like you know more than others about the war.

I've been ten times or so in Ukraine since this war began and yes, I think I know more than others - specifically, you, not all others - about this war. I've also lived in Poland before the wall came down and have first hand experience with the russian body politic when they think they are on top. I have family in the Baltics, Poland and Romania.

You seem to have a highly theoretical understanding of how this all works and I can't fault you for that but I will be happy to educate you and I invite you to come along on my next trip to Ukraine. And we'll see how your theoretical idea of the world holds up in practice.

If you want to take me up on that offer, email in profile.

Being in the country just colors your perspective differently. If anything it clouds your judgement as someone like me who has not been (but would love to visit sometime!) can look at the situation a bit more dispassionately and with a more global perspective.

Happy to share more info any time.

My position did not change since I went there, I went there because of my position. But I did learn a lot of things that are not so easy to see from behind your keyboard and a continent (or in my case half a continent) away.

And no, my judgment isn't clouded, I know right from wrong when I see it. If you would love to visit sometime then you may have to change your position on a lot of things because if enough people believe like you seem to do then there won't be anything to visit left.

That doesn’t make any sense. I support Ukraine and Russia’s war is wrong and stupid but I also see more of the global perspective so I don’t have to overreact to bad things happening in only one part of the world. There are bad things happening in many places and America for example has to deal with many bad things or potential bad things all over the planet. The European perspective is very narrow while the American one is global.

> The first flawed assumption is that an argument, discussion, or point that disagrees with you must fundamentally be a Russian talking point. That I can tell you is just untrue.

You write just like someone whose brain has been softened by Russian propaganda. That's why you're seeing the responses you are seeing, not as a response to mere disagreement.

That doesn’t make any sense. I’m anti-Russia and anti-war. Whenever you claim something like “your brain has been softened by Russian propaganda” you are factually incorrect.

All the energy in the world, doesn't make any kind of Ukrainian genocide ok.

Ukraine needs to defend itself, and that is all.

Sorry that’s unrealistic and untrue. Your framing is wrong too. We won’t choose between Ukrainian genocide and energy.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com