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Comment by mytailorisrich | Hacker News Reader

The US have been controlling Europe since 1945, and NATO is one tool (when France left the integrated command and kicked out US troops in 1966 it was exactly for that reason).

At the moment the US administration is maybe bluster than usual but I don't think there has been a fundamental change in the balance of power or who's really is in charge.

I don't think Musk's behaviour with respect to Starlink is out of the ordinary, either for someone in hos position. It's just that somehow things tend to get more public, or more leaked, nowadays.

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> US have been controlling Europe since 1945

This is hyperbole. Europe features full democracies. Its voters have consistently chosen quality of life and convenience over strategic autonomy.

That was a reasonable trade-off then. It’s a bad trade now. Europe, however, seems incapable of institutionally adapting to that, instead continuing to hope the last ten years have been a blip.

> don't think Musk's behaviour with respect to Starlink is out of the ordinary

An American helping the Soviets against Europe during the Cold War would have been jailed or executed. This behavior is absolutely out of the ordinary.

Superficial democracy does not exclude control on key issues at a deeper level.

I think Musk is helping his interests, which is what people in his position have always done and the US is not directly at war, either. In fact so far the US have benefited from the war in Ukraine, indeed at the expense of Europe... but the US look after their interests nothing new or strange.

> Superficial democracy

Europe features full democracies. Its electorates chose to outsource security. That doesn’t make their democracies superficial or irrevocable.

> the US have benefited from the war in Ukraine, indeed at the expense of Europe

American oil and gas producers have benefited. Americans have not—we’re paying more for everything because of these wars. In the long run, American power has been severely degraded.

No it doesn't have "full democracy". Only Switzerland has a full democracy, in the world.

Most of (western) Europe has a bleak copy, representative democracy, where we get the representatives who are the best at advancing within a political organisation. Essentially, the worst type of yes man you can imagine.

You're making a lot of claims without a scrap of evidence to support it. In fact rather than support your prior claims you simply elaborate with new ones.

That's a red flag IMO. Are you able to support your fairly extreme claims of secret control rather than voluntary membership? The shallowness of "European Democracy", or an explanation for why Finland, Sweden, and Ukraine would all rush to try and join NATO?

I'm very curious to hear less of your thoughts and see more of your evidence.

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