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Comment by giancarlostoro | Hacker News Reader

I just want to buy a "Stupid TV" I wonder if such a brand would sell very sell "JustWatch TV" people in stores seeing how quickly it turns on, and just works, no internet questions, just a TV working. Must be revolutionary, can't believe we never thought of having TVs without an entire invasive OS that slows down the entire TV...

Every smart TV I own never gets internet access, ever. I just plug a real device that connects to the internet instead, they're a much faster and better experience.

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There are stupid TVs but they're more expensive since they don't have an ad subsidy.

I'm doing what you are - just don't connect it and you can enjoy ridiculously low prices on TVs.

Other than commercial panels, I think buying a non-smart TV with decent picture quality is verging on the impossible now.

Yep. I wanted a decent sized OLED with good image quality. Couldn't find anything remotely like what I was looking for in a commercial option, so I said screw it, cashed out some credit card rewards, and bought a spyware LG TV that never gets connected to the internet. Display itself is gorgeous. Set it to start up on the last used input (the AV receiver). Video sources connect to the AVR and those get managed individually depending on what access they need to function.

It could still be connecting anyway and using its microphone and using content recognition on what you watch. I am surprised how few people in this set of threads read about the LG spy TVs.

There is zero evidence of this happening. There are tens of thousands of people who have posted about devices doing sketchy things who monitor their network and yet this has never been demonstrated.

Anything you own could also have a secret 5G radio built in spying on you, but that's reasoning via Russell's Teapot and pointless except to baselessly spread paranoia.

Even if they do not currently do it they very easily could add it silently in the next TV software version you buy in the store...

On my LG TV, which is pretty old, the wifi module is just a standard m.2 e-key that I can remove. I wonder if that is still the case or if they are integrated now.

The next best thing I wish I could do is root my TV and install an OS that makes the experience less painful.

It's getting hard to get a dumb TV.

Try getting a display panel, like one of those used in restaurants to display menus.

> just a TV working

I think to be considered a television, you still need to be able to receive OTA broadcasts. With modern digital television, that now means you need a H264 (H265, soon maybe) decoder.

I don't know if you can do that cheaper than a SoC, which makes adding "smartness" (even if it's bad) not that much more expensive.

You are looking for a very large monitor. They are very expensive. TVs are large monitors subsidized by their adware.

Just buy a TV and don't connect it to the Internet. I have even seen people remove the WiFi daughterboard. That's essentially your "very large monitor." You absolutely do not have to endure the adware and privacy invasion of content recognition and other spyware. Beat the TV manufacturers at their own game.

> Just buy a TV and don't connect it to the Internet.

There are some TVs that eventually pop-up a “please connect” or similar message over any display (even if just using it to display content from another device via HDMI) if they have not been connected for some time, so that you can't permanently use them disconnected. I forget which brand(s)/models are involved, it was talked about in at least one of Louis Rossman's rants so you might find some details in the consumer rights wiki he is associated with.

There will be ways around this of course, though they might involve mucking about in a way the average TV user will not want to risk playing aroud with (rooting the device so you can alter an internal clock that is not affected by any clock you can modify on the UI, or pulling a battery backup out so everything resets (assuming the clock's state is not stored in solid state memory than needs no powered at all to maintain)).

> pop-up a “please connect” or similar message

I bought a Vizio TV which has this evil, undocumented "feature". It would pop-up a message after every dozen or so boots. The message can be manually dismissed with three clicks on the remote.

The TV also will not turn on and just display an external HDMI source even though it has a "Remember Last Source" feature. That feature does work with any internal streaming source but external sources must first be manually selected with the remote after each power on (also undocumented in the manual).

I figured this out because I bought this small TV to be a wall-mounted screen in the dedicated bathroom of our home theater room. It's only job is to turn on while someone is in the little bathroom and display a copy what's on the main 150" projector screen in the next room, then turn off when they leave. The on/off is handled by a motion sensor and standard Home Assistant automation but after power on it correctly shows the Last Selected external HDMI source for 1 second, then blanks the screen. The source is already selected and working but being blacked out until the remote re-selects the same source (only if it's external). This is clearly an undocumented anti-pattern added specifically to prevent the TV being used unattended as a display screen, picture frame, digital sign etc. Why? Because Vizio (now owned by WalMart) doesn't get rev share if it's: 1) Not online, and 2) Only viewing external sources. That's why it demands manual "proof-of-life" before it'll grudgingly deliver the basic functionality it claims on the box.

So, I programmed an ESP32 with an IR emitter so that every time the TV powers on it sends the remote presses to manually clear the "Please Connect Internet" message and re-select the already-selected external HDMI. Very annoying to be forced to figure this out but now it works fine and no one even sees the stupid messages as they're already gone before they see the screen. Fuck Vizio :-).

> The TV also will not turn on and just display an external HDMI source even though it has a "Remember Last Source" feature.

I have an Android based TV that is connected for the purposes of iPlayer/NetFlix/other, but is mainly used to play off my local media array via a Pi4 running LibreELEC (Kodi) as even though I subscribe to a couple of streaming services I still find getting things otherwise more convenient. Until a recent update it happily stayed on the HDMI source the Pi is hooked up to unless I switched it, now it (almost) always reverts to its own homepage (with the auto-playing video adverts for shows/games/services) when waking from standby.

> There are some TVs that eventually pop-up a “please connect”

This seems to be supported by the below link. It isn't a "please connect," but initial setup requires a Roku account. So the conclusion is do not buy a Roku TV, or Roku anything.

https://support.roku.com/en-us/article/how-do-i-use-my-tv-in...

Return it to the store, it's defective.

That might fly here (UK) under the consumer rights act (which replaced the earlier sale of good act in 2015), particularly the distance selling provisions, but certainly not everywhere. Even here some would try to argue that it isn't a defect but a valid “behaviour as designed” for a product sold as internet connected so you might not get a refund purely on that basis without a jolly good set-to.

If I advertise you a TV and sell you a rock is that legal because the design of the rock was for a rock?

OK so don't get one of those. There are others that don't have such timers.

All well & good, except how do you know until you've had it sat in your home working for × amount of time? The information is hardly easy to find, no box or advert for a TV says (except perhaps in very very small print) “will not work properly without an Internet connection”. Returning it is going to be a faf just physically, convincing the seller that the problem is a defect and not acceptable behaviour as designed is going to be fun too.

Things being too much hassle to fight is what a lot of the invasions of our privacy and other rights are based upon, hence 80-page click-through licences, difficult cancellation processes, labyrinthine stalking preference pop-overs on web sites/apps, etc.

You can set your TV to "dumb mode" by choosing Apps only mode or Basic TV mode (might be only available for Sony Google TVs).

You definitely want to turn "Samba Interactive TV" off.

> You can set your TV to "dumb mode" by choosing Apps only mode

Android TV has this. It didn't have ads for less than a year. Now the ads banner is there regardless.

Or a TV where you can rip out the internals and replace them with some cheap dumb board. Not sure where you'd find a reputable one, though, as that's the perfect audience for hidden backdoors.

Naturally I would say, but that doesn't have speakers... but you can't even buy a TV without having to buy a soundbar or any sort of sound system anymore. Infuriating.

A pair of bookshelf speakers will always dominate whatever speakers the TV comes with. It's a mandatory replacement in any case. There isn't enough physical space in a TV for good sound. Soundbars are crap.

Even soundbars are better than TV speakers. Proper speakers would still be better, but TV speakers are nearly useless.

I'm sure you're right, but it's very funny to be someone with a pretty good ear in some regards (I played in band in school and sang for many years, so I'm quite sensitive to intonation/instrument balance in music) that apparently has zero ability to mind poor speaker quality - I find the speakers on board my piece of shit 10+-year-old Samsung tv I bought from facebook marketplace perfectly adequate for general use.

It just goes to show how much taste is learned. Not even to say it's subjective (which of course it is at least in part), just that it's a skill that needs to be developed, and, at least in part, a curse. I remember thinking 480p was quite crisp quality, now I find 720p DVDs charmingly rustic.

All DVDs are 480p max.

I was a floutist as well. I think part of it is that you just get used to the level of whatever sound device you use.

The thing is "smart tvs" are actually cheaper than dumb tvs would be, specifically because they can make money on the advertising.

Anyway, google TVs (like my TCL tv) let you use them in dumb mode, which is what I do. I just have it wired to my Apple TV 4k (the least bad of the smart tv boxes that support HDCP) and thats good enough for me.

Everyone here talking about how hard it is to get one.

My 2018 Samsung TV has smart features, but is not internet connected. It turns on quickly and right to the selected source - no brain cells harmed having to look at ads. It slightly bugs out sometimes, but I assume this to be a general issue.

Not sure, but I heard that special Hotel TVs are basically that. They don't seem to be more expensive.

It's usually possible to buy a regular tv, and just never turn on/activate the internal "smarts" by never connecting it to the internet.

Only use an external device.

Do the non-connected TVs bitch about lack of connection and desperately prompt you to upgrade?

You may want that but you won't like its unsubsidised price.

Like it or not it's no longer viable to sell to consumers at "cost plus margin" - you're sold a loss-making unit and the size of the loss is based on how much LTV they expect of you.

Be happy it's cheaper for you, but be aware that as an informed consumer who's not plugging in your device you have negative LTV and are thus not the product's target customer and sadly are actually kind of leeching off their business model.

I'm sure you wouldn't do that if you had a choice. But the old business model is unviable now so no one's left except these jerks.

But hey, cheap TVs!

> You may want that but you won't like its unsubsidised price.

I promise you I won't give a shit about the unsubsidized price.

Thank you for your ancedote. I think OP is emphasizing that no, most people would give a shit because most people can't spend 1k on a panel.

Some people spend well over 1k on smart TVs.

Right but not most people as I said.

And yet TVs were sold for that price or more accounting for inflation for decades, and indeed most people bought them.

But now we have a lower price anchor so people won't pay that much for them

My Sony cost well over 1k, yet it came with crapware and got more enshittified as time went on.

Neither did I, so I bought an U5226KW for $3000, when a similar sized TV was only $700.

Monitors have also gotten incredibly cheap, and there's Sceptre who sell dumb TVs that are pretty cheap. So I don't really buy that they're selling TVs at a loss.

Consider the differences in hardware and customized software between a dumb and "smart" display. They are not the same.

Not sure the point you're trying to make, it sounds like you're agreeing that dumb TVs should be cheaper than equivalent smart TVs?

There is no reason to be happy about father enshittification which is exactly what you are describing here. Yet another produce that is getting worst while also not getting cheaper.

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