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Comment by dkga | Hacker News Reader

Contrarian view here but honestly I can't imagine not cleaning up after yourself by default. Of course I am not saying that I do a deep clean at every place I stay but if I'm staying in an AirBNB the very least I do is to leave the place in a civilised way. For example, if I use kitchen utensils I either clean them or put in the dishwasher when available. I seriously never understood people that just leave completely dirty things behind, especially when they are travelling with their kids.

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There's a difference between putting dishes in the dishwasher and doing the dishes. I'm glad to put trash in the trash can. I'm not willing to take the trash down two flights of stairs and find the right dumpster. I'm willing to put my sheets in the washing machine. I'm not willing to do the laundry.

My issue is the double dipping. You want me to clean? Fine, waive the cleaning fee. You don’t get to charge me the fucking cleaning fee and also ask me to clean. Pick one

Exactly. The cleaning fee should cover when the place is left a mess, and it should be refunded when the place is left clean.

But it should never be on the tenant to ensure that the property is prepared for the next guest.

> There's a difference between putting dishes in the dishwasher and doing the dishes.

I'm not seeing it. If there isn't a dishwasher then you do the dishes.

I'm not a fan of Airbnb but I agree with the GP that you should clean up after yourself in this respect (cleaning dishes that you have used).

Fine, let's say I do it. Why is there still an exorbitant "cleaning fee"?

>Why is there still an exorbitant "cleaning fee"

Are you serious? I do the dishes and take out trash/recycling (and other regular cleaning work) as an obvious matter of course to not live in a total stinky shithole. But also once a month we pay for a real service to do a serious cleaning that gets into all the corners and under furniture and ceiling and descaling in the bathroom (hard water) etc etc, which my SO wants kept up with and I think that's reasonable. Between kids, pets, guests and so on more accumulates in a house then trivial regular clean up deals with. They're not the same thing; everyone is expected to do their dishes and contribute to taking out the trash or other chores, but not necessarily to putting on heavier duty protective kit and dealing with bathroom tile or oven accumulation. And obviously there's a fee for that (and putting it off to 2-4 months isn't actually necessarily helpful if it ends up meaning each cleaning takes much longer and thus costs more).

Not having used in forever nor ever run an AirBnB, I will say that yes, I can see it being annoying to get charged if you were just there overnight and caused no issues. And I strongly think that anything which is part of standard practice after every single visit should also be part of the upfront price not a "fee". Extra fees should only be for unique things, like someone actually creating a big mess that takes extra time. But I also think basic humanity that takes a few minutes is different from something that takes an hour and extra equipment. If you leave a sink full of dirty dishes or trash laying around that's disrespectful, gross, will get worse much more quickly then dust bunnies. I'd be ok with dinging someone for that. Cleaners aren't lesser people servants, they're specialist professionals there to help not be maids to spoiled brats. A hotel room (or BnB) mini kitchen isn't a full service restaurant. If you want that level of help that to me feels reasonable to say is extra.

Comes across as double dipping to me if the cleaning fee is exorbitant AND the guest is expected to make an accommodation spotless before checkout.

I'm not in any way saying it's respectable to leave "a mess" in an accommodation which charges a cleaning fee, but a small amount of dirty dishes in a sink (if there is no dishwasher) or not having washed linen is not in my view leaving a place "in a mess" as the host is expected to do a certain amount of cleaning regardless since trusting guests to do it would be reckless and this can be unreasonably time consuming for guests and challenging if they have small kids.

If there is _no_ cleaning fee and the terms were clear that full clean-up of the accommodation is expected, then fair enough, guest saves on cost by doing the work themselves and if they don't they deserve a negative rating.

I guess AirBnb has found that many hosts use it as an excuse to penalize guests or to claim it's not the host's fault if the place was not clean on arrival of the next guest, so it's just simpler for AirBnb to set a baseline of host service expectation.

Dirty dishes are meant to be in the sink, and trash is meant to be in the trash can. There's no disrespect to cleaners by leaving things where they're meant to be. It doesn't make you a "spoiled brat".

If anything it means more of the $150 cleaning fee actually goes to the cleaners. Otherwise the cleaners only get paid for 30 minutes of light dusting and changing sheets while the owner pockets the rest.

There is a difference between paying and forcing someone to do it. The later might kill you.

no, fuck that, they charge a cleaning fee.

Airbnb charges a cleaning fee.

My understanding is that hosts optionally specify cleaning fee charges.

You are correct

I do these sorts of things all the time for cabin rentals. It's pretty standard there. But the cost typically also reflects it. I'd be fine with the same sort of situation on AirBnB, but the fees and such change the calculations really quickly.

+100. Airbnb hosts in he PNW region (incl BC area) have unreal expectations. The cleaning costs are "island typical" i.e. high and they expect you to : i) do the dishes & unload the dish washer , ii) load the sheets into the washer and leave it running, iii) take the trash and recycling to the bin, and iv) make sure there is no residual smell from anything you might have cooked in the kitchen and more.

I've got no issue with tossing trash bags into the can outside and running the dishwasher before I go. Airbnbs are not cleaned immediately after you leave so it's reasonable not to leave rotting food around. I also don't stay in luxury airbnbs, it's usually just when I want to stay with others or the nearby hotels are more expensive or too far away. I've also never stayed someone that some has expected cleaning from me beyond what I think is reasonable (see above).

I did have someone once ask me to strip the bed but that's just boomer hospitality etiquette expectations. It takes no time to strip a bed and the cleaners will need to touch the sheets anyway so why am I doing it?

They're usually charging you over 100 for a cleaning fee and pitch them selves like a hotel stay.

I think if homes were presented as a home, not a residential hotel, along with lower prices, cleaning would be perceived differently.

In Finland, summer cottage rental self-cleaning (and bringing your own towels and bedding) is common - with an additional fee if you don't want to do it yourself.

It really brings down the price of a single night or weekend stay when you're just using the bed and bathroom and cleaning is a 10 minute job.

Yes, Sweden is the same, there’s often an optional upcharge to get linens and towels etc and for cleaning and it’s often quite reasonable and in line with the amount of labor involved. I often end up paying it unless, like you say, you’re only briefly using the facilities and cleaning up is a 5-10 minute job. I think it’s quite a reasonable approach, people don’t ask for a deep clean but sweeping tossing dishes in the dishwasher etc.

I think it only works in a high trust society, my fellow American countrymen are mostly incapable of actually doing what they promise in this regard, the nordics have enough societal responsibility and shame involved that you can reasonably expect people to do what is asked of them. A system like this in America would probably fall over from abuse by people who would not pay for the cleaning and then not do it

Makes a lot of sense.

My father runs a few guest suites out his house and the cleaning cost, wear and tear of washing linen makes single night stays really impact his bottom line, hence him having a cleaning fee which is per stay rather than per night.

Prospective guests can then choose for themselves if they feel the overhead of the cleaning fee for such a single night is worth it for them and my father doesn't land up with uneconomical stays.

I think the hassle lies in uncertainty. Different hosts have different stands on house chores. One may expect me to simply put dishes in the dishwasher, while another may expect me to wash and dry all their bedsheets. Many people would rather just get out of this worry all together.

I'd prefer not to wash sheets of course, but also because I wouldn't trust previous guests to acually do it instead of just shaking the sheets out and putting them back.

In August I was renting Airbnb for 2 weeks. On departure day I left all trash sorted in the bags in the kitchen, and dishes collected from all the apartament in the sink.

18 days later I’ve get notice from Airbnb that I’ll be charged $50 (45 EUR) for damages. The host decided that this required deep cleaning. What’s more important for $50 you can find a cleaning company for 2-3 hours in Warsaw.

I can see both sides of the issue, that is, hosts protecting themselves (to an extent) from dirty guests. I've seen once the huge pile of dishes in a shared stay, and it wasn't nice.

I think it's not a big issue for people who clean up after themselves daily, but on the other hand, sparing those last 10 minutes on the checkout morning... ;)

I would never be expected to clean my dishes after ordering room service in a hotel. The price of an AirBNB would have to be much cheaper than a hotel in order for me to do my own cleaning. And in my city at least, it never was.

but you are paying extra for the room service. the price pf washing is included in that. when i bring my own food then i totally expect to clean the dishes i use from the host myself.

And most AirBnBs charge cleaning fees. So if you’re not paying for “cleaning” what exactly is it?

ok, yes, it depends how high the cleaning fee is. and i would also consider what is normal usage.

for example if i spend a several days or longer in a place and instead of washing and reusing dishes as i would at home, i never wash any dishes but use up all the available dishes instead then i would not consider that normal.

dirty dishes also contain leftover food which can rot, or dry up, making it hard to clean, etc, you don't want to leave that stuff out for to long.

bed sheets on the other hand i wouldn't wash unless i am there long enough that i want to reuse them myself. the rest is just keeping things tidy and not leave chaos behind.

Yeah but what if they dont?

I have been using the platform for about a decade and have never once seen an Airbnb without cleaning fees

I've stayed in some guesthouses that didn't charge a cleaning fee. I assume the owner just walked over and did the cleaning themselves.

or they factored the cost of cleaning into their price. doing the cleaning as a host myself is not a reason not to charge a cleaning fee if that is the way i make my money.

the whole thing with a cleaning fee is either to allow the advertised room price to appear lower (but doesn't airbnb now factor the cleaning fee into the price shown?) or alternatively to make longer stays cheaper because the cleaning fee is not applied for every day).

Short term rentals universally include a cleaning fee.

What’s that ridiculous cleaning fee for then?

The problem is that the cleaning fee is how many hosts gain additional profit. They self clean and add chores.

I know hosts that do this.

The guide for guest behavior is pretty much good guest guidelines like ensuring no trash is left out.

Its past time airbnb standardize the experience here more.

I do favors and chores for friends & family, or at a hostel where you pay nothing & get nothing and everyone has to diy, not for someone who charges me money.

The new rules already clearly and explicitly describe leaving things "in a civilized way". No one is suggesting it's ok to destroy a place.

> at a hostel where you pay nothing

Which hostels are these? Because all the ones around me cost €50-€80 a night for the privilege of sleeping in a room with twelve strangers.

Most places a hostel is far less than any hotel in the same area at the same time, and offers equally less amenities. That's the definition and point of their existence.

If you live somewhere that only has bad deal hostels that no one should use, oh well. So do I probably. I've never looked in NJ. It just means there also exists hostels in the world that I would not use or would not do chores for.

You can still do that. The host just can't require you to do that - especially after charging a mandatory cleaning fee.

I mostly stopped using AirBnB due to the impact of their existence and lobbying on cities and affordable housing, but after my final few stays I was ready to quit over the huge fees, the fact those fees were hidden when searching, and the absurd rules BS.

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