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Comment by dennis_jeeves2 | Hacker News Reader

> refusing to pay taxes,

Taxes should be optional to start with. If you pay taxes you get services, if not you don't.

How do you stop the non-payers from using public systems?

It can be like any other system where you need some proof of payment. For example passes for roads where one has to pay a toll. To minimize complexity there can be a common pass for a bunch of services: roads, libraries etc. The important thing here is that there must be a way to opt out if needed. While it does shift complexity to billing each service, it removes more complexity from things like the extremely complex tax code.

(It does raise the question if the govt should have monopoly on roads etc. but that a bigger question.)

That sounds far worse than the current system IMO. Of course we already have people not paying in as much as the should.

Who else is going to build roads that anyone can use without being nickle and dimed into poverty? Certainly not for profit corporations.

>That sounds far worse than the current system IMO.

Nope. How often do you do taxes? Are you employed and/or do you own a small business?

>Of course we already have people not paying in as much as the should.

How do you decide how much a person should pay? Conversely how can you make sure that you are not paying into the pockets of the govt for services they don't render?

>Who else is going to build roads that anyone can use without being nickle and dimed into poverty? Certainly not for profit corporations.

Road are really cheap. ( cheap = cheaper than paying taxes) More than a century ago in the US about 3000 companies existed which constructed/operated toll roads.

Democracy. Electing people who do the things we want is how we decide things and stop the things we don't like.

You didn't answer my question:

How often do you do taxes? Are you employed and/or do you own a small business?

These will determine your views.

I didn't answer your question because I have found it pointless to argue with people who don't believe in supporting the society they live in.

Good try at the virtue signaling - i.e you care about society and I don't.

A more honest answer is - "I have never done my taxes and I'm 15 years old with very little life experience".

p.s - you won't get too far if you lied to me about doing taxes, because I'll ask you specifics on what you did.

How is that working out in the US?

It's not because we have allowed the wealthy to take complete control of the system. Though, really, it was designed that way all along.

We saw in the US early 1900s how that worked out. You literally had homes burning down because people didn't pay into the right fire fighter service to put out their homes. And how do you handle medical services like 911? Should we just leave the poor to die? How do you deal with people who don't believe they need X service and then they suddenly need it?

Libertarianism sounds great on paper and always falls apart in reality the moment a community grows in size and the individual can't match the good provided by the collective.

> Should we just leave the poor to die?

You can help them personally, not just the somebody else's money.

>You literally had homes burning down because people didn't pay into the right fire fighter service to put out their homes.

You left out many details. For example many people actually used fires to cook. And then there are accounts of fire departments starting fires off on purpose to justify their existence. And why shouldn't people be held responsible for their own fire safety, just like everything else? [For the records - I have lived in places with no fire department and 911 service]

Real question for you: what cumulative[*] tax rate on your income would you be comfortable with for the services that you are currently getting?

* cumulative = income tax + property tax+ sales tax + all other taxes

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