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Comment by TutleCpt | Hacker News Reader

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Humans still write the code, we just do it using AI tools.

If we abdicate and let all software development and operations occur through the use of fully autonomous agents, someone is still ultimately responsible for the agents work/screw-ups. Thus, there is still a human writing code, from an ownership perspective. We all know it won't be the capital/manager class holding the stick there.

> Humans still write the code, we just do it using AI tools.

That's literally the opposite of what TFA quotes in Proton's "Engineering Manifesto"

> Your job has fundamentally changed. It is no longer to write code, and LLMs are not here to help you write better code faster. Your job is to help the LLM write better code faster

It goes on to say

> Every engineer is now a team leader, a manager, and your direct reports are the models and agents you use.

They don't want their engineers and programmers to write the code. They want LLM handlers.

>If we abdicate and let all software development and operations occur through the use of fully autonomous agents, someone is still ultimately responsible for the agents work/screw-ups. Thus, there is still a human writing code, from an ownership perspective.

That isn't what "writing code" means. The responsibility is for using the AI, or being negligent in doing so, but the AI is obviously writing the code. That's the entire point of it.

Are compilers writing code? I mean, people hadn't been producing anything that a CPU is actually executing (excepting some very rare special cases) for decades now. So we never wrote code to begin with...

A compiler works much more deterministic though

"More" - yes, "deterministic" - well... Have you looked at what modern optimizing compilers do to the source? And how they behave in those places described as "undefined behavior" by the standards? Could you predict, looking at the code you've supposedly written, something like Meltdown or Spectre? We have to face it - there are many layers of complexity between what we feed into the machine and what the machine actually does, and for many of them most programmers have but a passing knowledge. They don't care because it just works, so why bother? But for somebody writing in something as high-level as, say, Python, to puff their chest and proclaim "in our time, we used to strike out bits on a rock with chisel and hammer! Kids these days!" is not exactly appropriate. Yes, LLMs work differently from even the cleverest optimizing compiler or interpreter. But they are still tools for translating programmer's intent into machine actions.

...no? That's just called being a crumple zone.

Prototype self-driving cars where able to handle 90% of driving around 1990. Sometimes it is very hard to go from something that works very often to something that works always.

Depends on what do you mean by "writing code". Once, writing code meant punching holes in pieces of paper and feeding that into a machine. Then the technology changed. Writing code became entering cryptic numbers into the machine. Then the technology changed. Writing code became typing words and punctuation that have some passing connection to English but otherwise meaningless to a non-professional. Then the technology changed. Writing code became much more like writing text but still not resembling any actual text. Then the technology changed... It will change again. It still won't magically produce something sensible out of nothing.

Regardless of who or what writes it, it needs to be tested.

I don't even care about that. Sure, use LLMs to write code. But the way Andy talks to his employees and treats them is so disrespectful, I find it actually despicable.

Unfortunately, it's not super easy for me to migrate away from Proton, but it's the next personal tech project I'll undertake.

> Do we really need humans writing code anymore though?

Yes, we do.

> Another year of development and AI is just going to be superior to a human writing code.

I've been hearing that for multiple years now. Why is it true this time when it wasn't in the past?

Companies need somebody to yell at when hackers get in.

Ahh yes, the final ten percent is always easy to predict like this.

This bubble can't pop soon enough.

You are right. Let's just hand the keys to everything to the AI companies. They've proven to be trustworthy and ethical. I trust them so much, I'm just going to stop thinking and say yes.

That seems highly optimistic.

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