[flagged]
I am small minded? Coming from you that's pretty rich, but fine.
The fact that you believe that I can't see the virtues of my society is rich too, I can see them just fine, there are many, and that one in particular is one that lots of societies have to come to terms with. Dutch tolerance is fairly well known by those who settle here from other countries. It gives us a far richer experience and makes life much more interesting. Yes, it also causes issues. But those issues are by and large problems created by inattention to the things that matter from a governance point of view. If you have an influx of poorly educated and poorly adapted people then you need to do something about that, you can't just shrug it off. And we do that. Not perfectly, and lots of lessons learned over the years. But just like people are complaining about Moroccan kids today they were complaining about Turkish kids a few years ago and against Surinam people some years before that. Integration takes time. Generations.
My kids will not conquer the world at your command. They will not forcibly teach others to think and act like Dutch people. That's insane. If they do leave NL and spread out across the world I hope they will bring with them some respect rather than a conqueror/colonist mindset. I hope they will be able to keep their eyes open, see opportunity and to be able to adapt to changing circumstances without wanting to force 'the dutch' way other than by example.
The Romans conquering Western Europe may have been good for Europe. But it was even better for Rome. Rivers of blood ran through these countries. Going by the outcome of such things can be used to justify anything, from genocide to plunder. No ethical framework has ever been successfully built on a utilitarian basis.
Yeah but it doesn’t make society itself better. It papers over a problem that’s created by immigration policy in the first place.
What’s impressive is the aspects of Dutch culture that you could copy to make other countries better and more successful. If I could magically flip a switch and import aspects of Dutch society into Bangladesh, I’d import Dutch orderliness, rule of law, cleanliness, eating culture (lunch sandwiches instead of wasting time with curries), etc. Tolerance wouldn’t even be on the list, because it’s a solution to a problem we don’t even have.
> Integration takes time. Generations.
I agree! Most immigration proponents aren’t willing to admit that, but you’re right!
So why undertake that burden? Why do all that work to, what, just get back to the same level of civic and social functioning you were at to begin with? (If you can even do that?) Why? Because you like difference and novelty for its own sake? That’s irrational.
> My kids will not conquer the world at your command. They will not forcibly teach others to think and act like Dutch people
I know they won’t. They will allow Europe to regress to the global mean instead of fighting to bring the world up to a higher standard.
> The Romans conquering Western Europe may have been good for Europe
It was good for the whole world!