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Comment by leviathant | Hacker News Reader

The absence of a start menu was confusing to me for about three minutes, and then I figured out that the Metro screen is the start menu, just full size. Ever since you've been able to pin programs to the taskbar at the bottom (or side if you prefer) of the screen, my usage of the start menu fell to pressing start, and typing the name of the program I hadn't pinned to the taskbar.

The start screen's the same for me, mostly, except I also click on "Weather" and occasionally use the Trackage app.

While I don't think the Metro interface is the solution for everything or even a primary direction to go in (I'm in desktop mode 98% of the time) I also think putting a start menu back in is a step in the wrong direction.

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I fully agree: The start menu was never a good idea, we just used it. As soon as you start installing and removing things, it quickly became cumbersome. Windows XP (iirc?) introduced weird ideas of how to cope with the chaos in that evergrowing, 3-4 level deep list of things you might or might not want to start: The 'personalization' feature that kind of randomly hid most of your menu. The hacks to order the menu (which never really worked reliably).

So the options today are fine, for my usecase, and I'm hard pressed to accept that the old solution was better in general.

- Pin programs to the taskbar - Use shortcuts for common/important stuff (Win+i, Win+x, Win+w, Win+f are the ones I need) - Use the type to complete thing otherwise

Most users I know moved to that workflow anyway, before Windows 8 (the start menu entry on previous Windows versions. Spotlight or maybe QuickSilver before that on OS X. Unity / Gnome Shell on Linux).

In my opinion the start menu needed constant micro-management and was a hassle.

(Disclaimer: I'm not happy with the ui formerly known as Metro, but I do like the 'type to launch' approach a lot)

>>- Pin programs to the taskbar - Use shortcuts for common/important stuff (Win+i, Win+x, Win+w, Win+f are the ones I need) - Use the type to complete thing otherwise

You can also use Win+Number to switch right to the taskbar program. quite convenient although I prefer using cap locks + home row keys to switch apps on the mac.

>>Most users I know moved to that workflow anyway, before Windows 8 (the start menu entry on previous Windows versions. Spotlight or maybe QuickSilver before that on OS X. Unity / Gnome Shell on Linux).

I agree. But if your workflow is shortcuts + quick search to open everything else it doesn't really matter if you use a start menu, something like metro or the mac os x dock.

But I think that if you are asking what is good enough for 90% of our users, is easily discoverable and reduces confusion it is hard to beat the start menu + taskbar. It isn't really a question of functionality, all you are doing is managing graphical icons that launch programs. The key should be reducing confusion for users who will use the program launcher for everything they do. I don't hear a lot of people arguing that the metro launcher was something that microsoft should have done without a focus on touch.

I agree, restoring a small feature (that doesn't prevent you from using the product the way you like) that has been requested by a large number of customers and may get them to like the product better is a definite step in the wrong direction.

By jove, I detect a note of sarcasm in your reply! You seem to have command of a wealth of anecdotes - why do people request this feature? Is it because they're confused, or does it have functionality that is lost in the start screen?

While it may be physically small on screen, is not an insignificant change in functionality.

Really, why stop there - let's bring back the Program Manager!

A note of sarcasm? I thought I was being quite blatant about it.

Why does it matter why they want it if enough people request it? It was removed and the response was to ask for it back. It's not like new functionality is being requested. It's a feature that has been a part of Windows for several generations of the product. There seems to have been little or no benefit in its removal. If the change confuses the customer, then it's likely a mistake. If the change removes or hides expected functionality, then it's likely a mistake.

Considering that people have been using commercial and free utilities to restore the functionality, it doesn't seem a significant thing to put it back. Microsoft could just bundle one of them with an install of Win8 and do nothing at all.

Finally, if enough people request a feature such as Program Manager, you're darn tootin' you should consider implementing it. The biggest failure of Microsoft concerning Win8 is the simple fact that they decided to ignore user feedback it was getting during the beta phase.

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