Comment by mikeash | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mikeash | Hacker News Reader

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I can't remember the last time I saw a car run a red light that wasn't just squeaking by a yellow. I can remember the last time I saw a bicycle do this, it was yesterday and the guy didn't even pretend to stop or care as he obstructed traffic that had the right of way.

And not to mention that I see roughly one thousand times (literally) more cars than bicycles on the road.

I don't doubt that there is a lot of confirmation bias going on in this discussion. But there's almost certainly some substantial differences in behavior going on as well.

Bicyclists generally feel more entitled not to stop for stoplights when they feel it's safe to proceed. I've run lights on the bicycle myself, although I always stop, wait long enough to be sure the light isn't going to change on its own, and proceed carefully after checking for traffic. Quite a lot of bicyclists seem to think that the fact that their vehicles are human-powered means they shouldn't have to stop unless it's absolutely necessary.

On the flip side, I'm sure bicyclists violate the speed limit way less often. I'm sure they kill many fewer pedestrians too.

Maybe it depends where you live (UK here). I see multiple cars jump multiple different red lights everyday, when the lights are very definitely red.

Often the cars accelerate into the lights to get through.

I also see bikes jump through lights, but I don't usually find them as objectionable as they are i) going much slower, ii) weigh about 10% of the car, iii) have a massive interest in navigating the junction safely because of the mortal risk to themselves.

I get annoyed when I see either cars or bikes jumping lights that are for pedestrians.

When you're talking about accelerating to get through, I take it you're discussing running of red lights quickly after a yellow.

While I certainly won't condone this, I also think it's a different class of problem from blatantly running a red light that has been red for a long time. Lights are timed to tolerate some abuse when it comes to trying to squeak through.

What I see bicycles do on a regular basis (and what this one particular jerk did the other day that really stuck out at me) is proceed through red lights that have been red for a long time. On a good day, they do it after stopping and waiting for a while. On a decent day, they check for traffic and only run the light if there's a hole. On a bad day, they just blow through.

I object for two reasons. First, even though they're likely to take the physical damage in a crash, they're still imposing potential emotional damage on others. Even if they're not at all at fault, a normal human will feel awful for hurting or killing a bicyclist while driving. Second, it gives all bicyclists a bad reputation, and that harms me when I'm on my bicycle.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-cyclists-mos...

According to that article, there is a good chance that running red lights is doing the opposite. Maybe time you changed your assumptions and objections.

That's quite an interesting link, but I'm not sure that conclusion can be applied outside of London as there seem to be a lot of confounding factors involved.

In the other hand see a car do it on a weekly basis where as I can't remember the last time a bicycle did it (and in the few cases I saw it, there was no obstruction of traffic and in fact they were getting a head start to allow traffic to flow more smoothly). So now that we have these disparate anecdotes what happens next?

> I can't remember the last time a bicycle did it (and in the few cases I saw it...

Indeed, the last time I saw it was so long ago I can't remember when it was.

The phrase "I can't remember the last time..." is idiomatic usage in my dialect of English for: "This has occurred to me in the very distant past."

How odd. When I use that phrase, I mean it literally.

I've never understood that phrase to mean anything other than its literal meaning.

You must speak some mythical human language that makes sense :P

No way!

Honestly, I'd be interested in knowing which of us is using it in the "normal" fashion. I really don't know. Or perhaps we both are and it depends on the region.

Yeah, it probably depends on a lot of factors, including social sub-cultures within dialects. To me using "I can't remember the last time X" to mean "I actually can't remember X happening" still sounds incredibly weird. Is that what you mean by the literal meaning?

To say the latter in conversation I would usually say "I can't actually remember X happening". I think "I cant remember the last time..." is roughly a shorthand for "I can't remember when the last time was that..." but who can be bothered actually saying all those words :P

Yep, that's pretty much what I mean. I'm not sure whether or not I've ever seen a car run a red light in person (aside from the all-too-common squeaking through yellows), but in any case I can't remember any specific instance.

No time like the present to present the present English that people speak :).

Ideally, somebody more motivated than I presents some statistics, although I fear they may not exist (neither the stats nor the person).

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