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Comment by faet | Hacker News Reader

"Women are penalized more than men for negotiating," Babcock tells Alex Cohen. "People are less likely to like them; if they negotiate in a job interview, they are less likely to hire them. There are real social sanctions that occur when women initiate negotiations."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1252923...

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You know that study is based on role-play, not reality, right?

In a randomized double-blind study(n=127), science faculty from research-intensive universities rated the application materials of a student — who was randomly assigned either a male or female name — for a laboratory manager position. Faculty participants rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant. These participants also selected a higher starting salary and offered more career mentoring to the male applicant.

http://cst.yale.edu/sites/default/files/Science%20Faculty%27...

This. This sort of research is the smoking gun. Think about it: The same CV with the same qualifications was rated worse if they thought it was a woman. This isn't some "women don't push for raises" or "women don't apply for high paid jobs", this is outright (but subconscious) "women who are just as skilled as men, being viewed as worse".

If this was a conversation about whether a new drug worked, the conversation would be over.

OK, so that says the situation is bad within academic science. It still does not support the idea that women (in the tech industry) who negotiate are punished, it says that in academic research they are offered less.

In fact given that the article we're allegedly discussing is about how there is no pay gap in tech, there's reason to think that this sort of outcome may not apply across the board.

you mean this?

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2008/08/11/More-assertive-wom...

or this?

http://vault.hanover.edu/~altermattw/social/assets/w12papers...

or maybe this?

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/womencareerresearc...

  1 - more roleplay
  2 - perceptions of women in management, says nothing about earnings, concludes people may actually prefer female managers.
  3 - Says women who alter their behaviour in certain ways actually do better than men.

I'm not sure of the point you were trying to make, but they don't seem to support the idea that women are actively penalised for negotiating out in the real world.

But wouldn't the experiments at least indicate the possibility that they reflect reality?

Definitely worth looking into, you certainly can't tell a lot from that npr article. Who did the role play? We're they a random assortment of psych students or people who had actually been on both sides of the table? Is there a good reason to think these classroom results hold up outside?

There has been no global warming since 1998.

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