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Comment by joshuak | Hacker News Reader

Everyone misses the point. Japanese are innovating, but the ingrained American values make most of us blind to the Japanese approach to innovation.

Japanese aren't copying they are embracing an idea, comprehending it, and improving it. They could be inspired by anything, like any of us, but there has been much to be inspired by in the US over the last 50 some years. We all do this, but while americans focus on price per unit, Japanese focus on quality.

As I've mentioned elsewhere the subtle but powerful core difference between Japanese and Americans (quality vs quantity) form the foundation of two different emergent systems. Although it sounds simple it is a profound difference at scale.

This is why Japanese are very innovative, but most americans simply don't see it. Japanese had broadcast HD in the early 90s, and phones that could play TV 6 years before the iPhone.

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It is also funny to the original that asked if japanese can essentially do "Lean".

Umm, Lean is just a copy of the Toyota Way that has been infected with american/euro values.

Constant improvement is Japanese. Americans use it to drive the cost low in order to maximize profits, japanese use it to maximize quality in order to maximize profits.

Erm... the japanese copied the germans.

I mean when someone says "What is the highest quality car?" - no one says "[Toyota|Mazda|Honda|Izuzu]"... though they might say one of those if you ask about the 'cheapest'... which is counter to your point.

I'm not talking about build quality perse - its the process of removing constraints to the end product to maximize efficiency while maintaining or improving quality. German cars are fantastic I agree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way

You are describing TOC (Theory of Constraints)[0], which predates "The Toyota Way"/"Toyota Production Systems" by ~20 years. It is a distinctly american philosophy that Toyota imported and are a great example of their implementation (As are BMW, VW, and Mercedes).

I think toyota are unique in how they incorporate their suppliers into their own processes, basically applying TOC beyond the walls of their own factory, which as far as I'm aware is/was quite innovative.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints

Toyota Way was published as a management buzzword in 2001, but its core "kaizen" long predates ToC. (But is credited to Deming bringing the idea to Japan)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen

Also, ToC and that horribly written "novel" _The Goal_ is the most oversold management buzzword ever. It is super famous because it was the first "agile" fad to get buzz in the modern era of mass communication.

ToC is a pretty influential piece in the realm of systems thinking, not sure you can dismiss it as just buzzwords given it's obvious application across multiple industries (despite what you think of The Goal).

Kaizen is just a word. It's (literally) like saying "improvement" long predates ToC... well of course, but it has no context.

Very cool - thank you. The method of thought I agree is definitely more than buzzwords. Problem is movements that use it and have no idea what improvement actually looks like. These lean movements happening now are ridic.

Taiichi Ohno published the original "Toyota Production System: Beyond Large-Scale Manufacturing" in 1978 (the English translation was published in 1988), while Goldratt's "The Goal" was published in 1984.

That's a mischaracterisation of my comment. Toyota is about improvement/perfecting (Deming's "quality", Six Sigma).

The examples I gave are about new product categories. To repeat one of them: before Sony, there was no transistor radio. They created not just one, but several new product categories - twelve, by Christensen's count. (Unfortunately, Sony didn't create any new product categories without the founder. e.g. the playstation was a great product, but consoles were an established product category.)

That is, it's not the getting better at something, but the creation of something new to get better at (hence Christensen's interest, as the coiner of disruptive innovation).

[ BTW: I can't help but think that the post-war period in Japan somehow enabled this creation of new product categories. ]

Japan was known for making cheap low quality products much like China is now. It's only relatively recently that they moved up the quality ladder. Which suggests there culture has less to do with perfection than you might think.

If anything it's the strong Yen which is forcing their hand. They can't make a profit importing materials and making cheap products without focusing on automation.

They made cheap products because they were asked to, because back then Japan had cheap labor. These products weren't considered fit for domestic consumption (only foreigners would want that junk), and their own standards of material goods were always high. I'm sure that something similar could be said for the Chinese.

In my experience, Chinese society is actually much more "American" than Japanese is. Both China and America are fine with doing a half-assed job if it works, and self-assured about effective kludges in a way that Japan is not even about near-perfection. And of course, both are hustling and proud and know they're the center of the world.

> It's only relatively recently that they moved up the quality ladder.

Depends on what you mean by "recent". In my mind, recent means within ~10 years. However, Japan started turning things around in the late 80s. We're approaching the 30 year mark of high quality Japanese products and, to me, that's no longer considered recent.

> They can't make a profit importing materials and making cheap products without focusing on automation.

But the article is wider in scope than just manufacturing, it's about the entire culture. It's everything from manga/anime to whiskey, Music (Ever hear of Babymetal? Now that's innovation), Kobe beef, to even porn. Those things aren't produced on an assembly line.

It takes some effort to recover quality standards after an entire country's industry and economy have been reduced to burning rubble.

>Japan was known for making cheap low quality products much like China is now. It's only relatively recently that they moved up the quality ladder.

Perhaps you mean the cheap radios, cameras, vehicles etc of post-war Japan. Those were made to rebuild their economy, and from a starting point of almost great desolation.

Go back a few decades from WWII, and you'll find out that for centuries before Japan made extremely high quality products, from swords and teapots, to furniture and jewelry.

To the point that European and American artifacts of the same type and same era look like the Dell Ditty compared to the iPod Touch.

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