Comment by pmg | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pmg | Hacker News Reader

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As nerd-ragey as some people are about the Beats deal, they have some amazing fit and finish with regards to manufacturing. See for instance their paint: most painted plastics experience an undesirable amount of "orange peeling" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_peel_(effect)).

This is caused in part by not getting the temperature of the paint high enough to form a smooth finish. Metal can withstand significantly higher temperatures than plastic. This is usually why car paints look so much better than Krylon's.

By over-molding their plastic tops around a metal base, Beats was able to increase the tolerable temperature range. Next time you roll into a Best Buy, compare the 'shinyness' and 'smoothness' of the overmolded Beats to any other plastic product made by Samsung, HP, or Sony.

We learnt this through Chinese manufacturing forums where if anything, the idea of 'target demographic' does not apply - Beats simply figured out how to put a nicer finish on their product than the competition using innovative manufacturing techniques and increase margin.

That's really interesting, I love learning about these manufacturing hurdles that consumers never hear about.

Consumers don't buy Beats because they're shinier though. They buy them because of the image that comes with them, thanks to a successful marketing and endorsement campaign.

That's why knock-off beats are everywhere in Hong Kong. Manufacturers can add a "b" to any old pair of over-ear headphones and they become much more valuable. Consumers value the "b"

>'Consumers don't buy Beats because they're shinier though. They buy them because of the image that comes with them, thanks to a successful marketing and endorsement campaign.'

Sure, but exceptional shine is exactly the sort of hard to replicate detail that maintains the brand value and sense of exclusivity they spent so much to build in the first place.

If I ask one of our high school age interns how to spot bootleg Beats, Jordans, fitted caps or whatever they'll run off a laundry list of incredible detail - shine, screws, stitching or some tiny seam that isn't quite flush.

They obsess over these things and would probably sooner have nothing than run the risk of being found guilty of the poverty / envy that wearing bootlegs would imply to among their peers.

To counterbalance, I think the Beats products look great and I've been tempted to buy them, but this very "image" around the brand sets me off greatly. That's the problem with endorsements, you end up wrangling your brand image with that of the celebrities endorsing your product.

"Next time you roll into a Best Buy, compare the 'shinyness' and 'smoothness' of Beats to any other product"

Yeah...just don't compare the sound.

The sound on Beats is actually good; much better than what most people have with their headphones so most users will experience an improvement by switching to them.

The problem is that the cost:sound ratio is poor; you can find cheaper headphones with the same quality and you can find much better headphones for the same price.

Sound is a very objective measurement so I won't go ahead and say that beats sounds "better" or "worse". However (I can't seem to find the link now) on many audiophile forums Beats have been measured to skew to better frequency response in the low range. Therefore they will sound more thumpy but without warm mids and crisp highs. Beats has engineered their headphones this way for a specific marketing demographic, I just don't know if this is what the majority of Apple customers want and interpret as good performance.

That may be the case, but consider that most consumers are probably currently using the <$15 earbuds that came with their phone. When those users switch to Beats they will get a much better sound experience, even if the frequency response is skewed.

I'll continue to recommend sennheiser over Beats, but I think the primary objection to beats should be their cost, not their quality.

This is a very important thing to remember: people always talk about how 'audiophiles' hate Beats headphones and would recommend a better-sounding, worse-looking and sometimes more expensive option.

The people buying Beats are people upgrading from their free headphones that came bundled with their phone, or the $15 ones they picked up at the supermarket.

Those are $30 headphones and I _love_ them. I use headphones 10 hours a day and it's always the apple ones. So comfortable, just the right amount of noise-canceling so I don't have to remove them to talk to people, and they sound good to me.

Beats are also very comfortable. Not much is said on headphone comfort in reviews and comparisons but it's very important for me.

The skew is exactly what Dr. Dre's fans, and other pop fans, want. They are made by a former gangsta rapper turned pop rapper. Who can listen to Dre without a trio of 12" subs rumbling their car or house or the dancefloor?

I have had Beats for 2.5 years. I like a lot of rap, and rap sounds awesome. Nicer headphones may have a better sound for a more broad range of music - but they don't replicate the 808's and fat basslines on Novation.

This isn't even close to being on topic, but I upvoted you because 'fat basslines on Novation' reminded me of the Wu Tang Clan! Triumph is a great song...

You can find much better quality headphones for _much_ less.

90$ HD-280 pro's sound better than 300$ Beats..

Compare the HD-280 pro to Beats headphones, from an aesthetics point of view.

[photo showing my field of view wearing HD-280 headphones]

[photo showing my field of view wearing Beats headphones]

Photos have been omitted because they look exactly the same.

Beats Headphones are fashion items, which is really most of the innovation they provide: making a normally geeky or tacky piece of equipment into something stylish.

What it looks like to you is besides the point, it's how they look to the people around you.

I know that, and I know that's important for some people. But for me, my aesthetic experience is not changed by how headphones I wear look, but just by how they sound and how comfortable they are. I spend most of my time wearing headphones alone, and very little of that in front of a mirror.

And still: any headphones, even the prettiest ones, look kinda lame in comparison to not wearing headphones. This is my personal preference of course; if I was worried about looking good rather than hearing good sound, I'd stick to little in-ear ones.

> HD-280 pro

That's actually the exact pair of headphones I have on right now. ;)

I own two HD 280s: one at the office, one at home.

Audiophiles almost unanimously agree that Beats headphones are sub-par when it comes to overall quality of sound.

Audiophiles basically agree that ears are sub-par

Does Apple care what audiophiles think? iPods and the default ear buds are low quality compared to most audiophile gear.

Apple's new earpods are a huge step up from their old earbuds, and given their price ($30) are well up there in their price range. Most reviews I've seen of them from more audiophile oriented sources have been very positive given their context. No they won't compete with $200 headphones or earphones, but they're supposed to either.

Apple's customers should probably care that they are going to be ripped off on headphones. The issue isn't "audiophiles don't like them". It's that you can pay a lot less money and get much better headphones.

let me correct that for you...

Apple's customers ██ █████ ███ ██ ██ are going to be ripped off █ ██████.

But that's not their target demographic so it's moot.

And audiophiles are, by definition, a tiny margin of the market. They're not the target audience of beats.

Source: http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

But me, I use the cheapest Panasonic headphones because they look cool and they're durable, and that's good enough for me. Probably for a lot of people. These: http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-rp-htx7-white/

They're not terrible just poor bang per buck.

Got a link to any of these forums? Would love to know more.

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