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Comment by sigmaml | Hacker News Reader

> The key selling point of functional languages is not lambdas, but immutable state and referential transparency.

Not everyone agrees, evidently! In his influential paper, Hughes argues that higher-order functions and laziness are key to functional programming.

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I'm going to agree with parent. OO programming is mostly about objects...they have names and identity, with that identity they can have mutable state (would be difficult to have state without identity and aliasing). In pure functional programming land, all values are anonymous, there is no way to tell if you seen something for unless you setup a GUID in the value (which would also require state, but whatever). Those values have no identity, so mutable state is impossible, leading to a very different style of programming.

If you allow for value identities (via GUIDs or if your language is really impure) in your functional code, you wind up with a style of programming that is very similar to programming with objects (messaging those values to do things with their state). Heck, you wouldn't even need overt mutable state to arrive at a very OO style (see clojure).

Hughes didn't disagree with what I said; I would contend that higher-order functions and laziness only improve modularity iff the language was referentially transparent in the first place. The assumption that the theoretical FP language he discusses is referentially transparent is found on page 2 of Hughes' paper.

Java's lambdas only serve to reduce boilerplate; everything done with Java's lambdas was long possible using anonymous classes. Theoretically, they do nothing to present the advantages discussed by Hughes [1].

Hughes also didn't talk about laziness-by-default: his argument still holds if laziness is available somehow (which it is in many FP languages).

[1]: Of course, lambdas might improve the style and expressivity of idiomatic Java enough to make up some ground.

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