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Comment by njm | Hacker News Reader

What bothers me most about the NoSQL movement is that it seems to be in conflict with a central tenet of our community: to avoid premature optimization, especially when at the expense of of expressiveness or correctness.

While normalized relational databases are indeed slower than key/value stores, they also foster data integrity and the ability to compose arbitrarily complex queries with little effort (assuming one actually groks SQL). One can always optimize trouble spots in a relational database later on (possible even with a KVS), but using a KVS from the get-go is bound to lead to pain.

If we happily use Ruby, Python, et al. while chanting the mantra of premature optimization being bad (and rightly so!), why does this not apply also to databases?

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That's like saying a Formula 1 team should first design a Ford Focus and then optimize it to win the world championship. It just doesn't make sense to call that process an optimization. The same is true for hi-performance/hi-volume use-cases where KV stores make sense.

Also, putting the optimization issue aside, the KV data access model is actually quite natural for web applications. This is hard to believe (seriously), and you have to see it to believe it. Note that in web apps, being able for the administrator to go in and issue complex queries/updates is much less important than for eg. a billing system. I use an RDBMS for an old billing project, and it wouldn't make sense to use a KV store, but I use a KV store for a web app I'm writing, and it turns out to be a great fit, more natural than an RDBMS.

Sure, I suppose it matters a lot on the type of Web application you're building. If you have a relatively simple domain model with very few relationships, I'm sure a KVS works pretty well. Still, for anything other than applications with simple domain models, or ones that need tremendous performance, a KVS is inappropriate outside of isolated optimization -- in practice, one runs into headaches with non-normalized data very quickly (think MBAs and their giant, messy Excel spreadsheet).

I disagree.

In most web apps data in per-user (or per-object, whatever that object is), and it's not a major headache to denormalize it to be per-user. One notable is exception is a social network, but that can be handled with some care.

We're talking about web apps written by programmers, not MBAs. Sure, if your web apps are written by MBAs, then they should use an RDBMS, because they can do less damage (?).

I'm not arguing against RDBMS/SQL here, all I'm saying is that a KV store is actually a good choice for the domain of web applications. You can also use an RDBMS of course, as we have for the last 10 years with the LAMP stack, as long as you're handling a managable amount of traffic. Even with a lot of traffic you can handle it with an RDBMS, it just stops making sense at some point.

The NoSQL movement is in direct support of the central tenet: do the simplest thing that could possibly work.

Relational databases are complex beasts that have a lot more configuration and administration overhead. They are overkill for most use cases. It's not just about scale, it's about simply wanting to be able to store and retrieve values because that's what we do more than anything else. Key-value stores are simple... you put things in and get things out. Instead of calculating things on read, you calculate and store them on write.

Key-value stores make a lot of things braindead simple that are otherwise fairly complex in relational databases.

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