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Comment by int3 | Hacker News Reader

Interesting points.

> The problem is that we are eating entry-level jobs, and in turn, creating an artificial scarce supply of "experienced" workers.

On the other hand, it is easier than ever to get cheap, basic education in a variety of things, with the Internet and MOOCs making information widely available. So entry-level jobs may be less necessary these days. On the other hand, it means the people who can afford to spend time acquiring this knowledge without receiving pay will have a bigger advantage than ever. Yet another argument for basic income, I guess.

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But education isn't what you need to be an experienced worker, you need experience. I think the parent's point is a great one, and would add to it that things are headed toward a glut of well-educated but nonetheless inexperienced people.

Fair enough. But experience can be garnered outside companies, and the Internet is making that easier, too: OSS development, nonprofit / pro bono work, etc.

Absolutely true, but "well, we've replaced entry-level jobs with working for free" is a terrible answer.

Also, would edit my original reply if I could to say that things seem to be heading this direction, not that they definitely or inevitably are.

It is only a terrible answer without basic income, which was the other point I was trying to make.

How does nonprofit/pro bono work help when you're trying to eat?

One of the most popular questions I hear being asked about MOOC is, "Will employers recognize this as a standard university education". I think, in a way, it's telling that question gets asked so frequently, as if looking for an assurance that MOOC will not be a waste of time, or just as good as traditional education.

When employers use education as a minimum bar, it may often be the case that the actual bar is the history as qualification, rather than the actual content of the information. It's similar to how a degree in theory would prove the employer that the person has some discipline to finish a degree.

That's assuming there's any incentive to pursue that free education. A large segment of the population has no interest in working save for the fact that if they don't they'll starve; these are not self-motivated people who seek out academic pursuits in their spare time.

Entry-level jobs are absolutely necessary, first for learning to get to work on time daily, then for the job-specific education needed to work up to something actually productive and which cannot be simply taught by an independent "expert".

Those advocating "basic income" need to go look up the phrase "going Galt" (upshot: given enough unproductive leeching off the productive, the latter are apt to say "screw this" and disappear from society).

"Going Galt" appears to primarily be a fantasy scenario. People largely tend to consumption rates which are smoothed and that factor in long-term expectations of income as opposed to marginally increasing rates that follow short-term signals like a linear input-output device. So it seems that tax burdens alone are not enough to cause massive "dropping out of society", as rational actors have determined that participation in consumer society in light of regulations and other externalities is still preferable to the costs of off-the-grid living. Not that taxation can't cause disincentive, but it's more complicated than just that.

More than off-the-grid, you see expatriation. Still not in tremendous numbers, for the most part.

The entire point is that automation is taking away those entry level jobs. Without those, people aren't going to be able to get a foothold into the workforce, and won't be able to become productive members of society.

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