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Comment by obstinate | Hacker News Reader

My big question is: are we ever going to get past this crap? Or is this the enlightened future of discourse. I guess I'm just getting old -- the gish gallop isn't new, but this form feels more terrible and insidious.

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The sad statement about the level of discourse is that you apparently care about it but still think granparent comment qualifies. It even breaks the first two rules of HN commenting guidelines: be civil, don't call people names.

I'm cool with calling sexists names, HN guidelines notwithstanding.

Maybe you only speak of the future of discourse because it's a deep sounding insult, but if you actually care I encourage you to read this essay and reconsider your acceptance of namecalling.

http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

I have read this essay a number of times. While I agree it is great, it has an assumption of good faith on the part of the counterparty that I find unsubstantiated in terms of sexists, including many of the anti-Pao folks in this thread. If your discourse consists mostly of repeating unsubstantiated rumors or outright falsehoods, or are otherwise laced with misogyny, like the induhviduals who have made comments about her husband, I feel there's a point at which it is fine for me to give up on you. At that point, the best way to raise the level of discourse is to remove the bad actors from the conversation.

The reason to set a higher bar is this: in a heated debate where core beliefs are being challenged there will always a temptation to decide you're dealing with an idiot or a monster even when you aren't.

I understand the theory. I do not believe that this is the optimal approach in practice.

If you don't mind me asking, perhaps you could give a reason why you feel this isn't always the optimal approach?

I can certainly understand that it's not exactly the most pleasant thing to do at times, but I feel as though it's an ideal where the side effects of striving for it are beneficial. It would mean a lot of me to hear your take on it.

Of course I do not mind. I believe ostracization and marginalization have historically been more effective for this type of objectionable opinion. The main differentiating factor is that misogyny is not rooted in reason. Thus, reason is an ineffective tool for attacking it, especially on the internet.

I'm not saying misogyny is rooted in reason, I'm saying the social justice movement has a habit of misclassifying opposing viewpoints as misogyny in order to dismiss them.

Do you have any reason to believe that name-calling is the optimal way to "remove the bad actors from the conversation"? In my experience, its only likely outcome is the destruction of potentially healthy debate.

There is nothing potentially healthy about the kind of smear campaign happening in this thread. If we saw no discussion of her husband, the posts that she did not actually remove, or claims that she extorted kp or lied about things that happened, then maybe.

This is why you are part of the problem.

It's reasonable to say his personal life should be left out but in your anger you've moved that line to a point where it prevents important information from entering the discussion.

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