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A European perspective: From about the 1950’s to the 1990’s, the USA was seen as the best place on Earth to be, bar none. It was viewed as having the biggest and best (for some definition of “best”) of everything (military, industry, products, culture), and was seen as being committed to an almost Google-like “don’t be evil” policy. Sure, there were exceptions, and individuals (and their administrations) were criticized, but they were seen as exceptions to a general good principle. The American national pride was seen as a little over the top (especially the slightly creepy “pledge of allegiance” school ritual) but not completely out of the realm of the concievable, and a bit understandable given the USA’s status.

Then Bush, Iraq, and 9/11 happened, and the resulting PATRIOT act, TSA, NSA, etc. Many were of course disillusioned with the USA before this (Washington Papers, CIA, etc.), but I think this was the point at which the view of the European general public shifted. It was suddenly OK to express suspicion about the USA’s motives in public discourse, in a way which would have seemed tinfoil-hat-ish or far-left-extremist before.

Now I can come to the point: The national pride of US citizens does not seem to have softened or changed. On the contrary, it seems to have hardened in the face of opposition. This, I feel, is the real emotional reason which Europeans have, to denigrate the USA at seemingly every opportunity: They feel that US citizens are far too proud of the USA when it has far too many flaws, and that Americans need to be put in their place, so to speak – taken down a notch. I confess that I personally have occasionally succumbed to this way of thinking, especially when Americans have been proud of (or at least content with) specific things which are really not very good at all compared to other nations.

I do not excuse this behavior, I am merely trying to explain it.

In New Zealand recently, there's been a 'debate' on whether or not we should change the flag. They've spent... $26 million on this so far, and yeah the populace is discussing it and such, but the funniest thing I hear most often is: "who the fuck cares?! it's a flag!"

Probably why they want to change it, to make it more "Kiwi" 'cos right now it's pretty similar to the Australian flag, and feels more "commonwealth" than an Independent blah blah boring nation.

I'm still confused as to why Americans love their flag. That said, I don't think I've ever met anyone who fits the 'non-stop pride, arrogance and smugness pouring out of Europe' 'cos that sure would be awful. At least the American flag just breezes around without annoying anyone. Personally, I think it's nice that people have passion/pride for their nation.

I've never seen any country or people with more pride in their flag than Denmark. Go to any Danish wedding, birthday, holiday party, anything... the Danish flag is everywhere. They decorate their Christmas trees with it the way an American might use tinsel. I've never seen anything like it in America, except at Independence Day or political campaign functions.

I’ve heard it explained as a remnant of World War II. During the Nazi German occupation of Denmark, the Danish flag was forbidden. It became a resistance hobby to sneak in the simple red-white-red colors into anything and everything, and of course when the war and occupation ended people could celebrate easily and powerfully simply by having the previously-forbidden Danish flag draped over absolutely everything, and this is the behavior which remains – the Danish flag has, by now, become a simple traditional part of many things, and there no good reason to remove it, so it continues to be present at every conceivable occasion.

Or so I have been told – I am not a Dane.

This talk explains the difference between a good flag and a bad flag quite nicely: https://www.ted.com/talks/roman_mars_why_city_flags_may_be_t...

> The pride - plenty of which may now just be mimicry - didn't derive from a flag, it originally derived from the ideas the flag represented.

I suspect the whole point is that a symbol has replaced the values and ideals it is supposed to represent, and that this extra step makes everything 'murkier'.

Being proud of specific things like universal health care or free education makes a lot more sense than being proud of a flag that indirectly might represent these things, mainly because it's easier to discuss these specifics.

That said, when it comes to actual pride I agree that many Europeans are very proud of 'Europe' and/or their country, and sometimes there's more than a little hypocrisy in the way we judge the USA.

I've found something a little different: Americans who berate America at every chance they get, always pointing out how Europeans have solved Problem X and we are so dumb for not adopting their simple solutions.

Of course, one only needs to look at what is currently happening in the eurozone to realize Europe isn't perfect either.

The reality is that problems that may look the same on the surface have nuances that make them very different in Europe and America, and there are a lot of smart people working to solve them on both sides of the Atlantic.

Well organized and perfect. I'd like to live in that Switzerland he's talking about. And I've seen enough people here who believe in wishing wells. Yes, we have everything we need and everything here is fucking expensive. And yet we're not happy and _do_ believe in wishing wells because, you know, you shouldn't just be happy and satisfied. You'll always find someone moaning here, and then you'll laugh because of the reason for that.

Oh, and the pride thing... Yes, many Swiss people are very proud of being Swiss. Even if they didn't do anything for being here. If you publicly state that you're not proud of being Swiss, they'll chase you with hay forks. At least sometimes I'm getting the impression.

And on that note, happy Independence Day America!