Magnusmaster

Locked down devices will never preserve privacy since the government can just mandate spyware that you won't be able to remove.

There is no form of digital ID that isn't evil, but anything requiring attestation is super evil.

Just say that the government will control every single device that's controlled to the Internet and they can add government viruses that you can't remove and they can remotely control all of your devices and brick them if you try to send anything that the government doesn't like.

That's not even an exaggeration, once they enforce OS-level age verification via remote attestation they don't even have to pass a law to do this, they can send a secret order to Big Tech to do this.

Exactly. And the funny thing is that the EU Age Verification App seems to be vulnerable to relay attacks anyway.

I expect the government will require ISPs to only allow connection from approved operating systems that only allow installation of approved apps so we can't do this. Not in the short term, but eventually.

Probably by forcing VPNs to only allow approved operating systems to connect to the Internet via hardware attestation, then those operating systems will only allow users to install signed apps, and only government-approved VPNs will be allowed.

I'm not sure that is even possible with Secure Boot

Zero knowledge proofs exist in theory, but none of these age verification laws that are introduced use them, probably on purpose. I'm certain that every government will want to know what sites everyone visits.

The people pushing for age verification have already said that they want to know who's behind every account on every website on the entire Internet. They won't accept any open or privacy-preserving standard.

The third world is also pushing Digital ID. In fact they would love it even more than the first world as it would allow for even more totalitarianism.

And it was a huge mistake. The laws are the same for everyone. If Apple can do this then so can Google.

Problem is a lot of apps require a locked-down device. You can't use a phone that isn't locked down in most of the world. And it will spread to PCs eventually.

The EU Digital Wallet requires hardware attestation so only it only works on locked-down government-approved OSes. That opens the door for government control of all electronic devices.

Zero knowledge proofs stops corporations from tracking you, but they don't stop the government from tracking which websites you visit. They also require hardware attestation for them to work, which means you will be only allow to use a locked-down goverment-approved OS for age verification, and that opens the door for the government to control the software running on every device.

I doubt banks or the government would ever white list something like Lineage that's not made by some megacorporation. Also IIRC most phones don't allow you to relock the bootloader after flashing a custom ROM.

Most banks don't know hardware tokens are a thing. They want everyone to use their app.

To avoid confusion, the actual name is Trusted Platform Module.

They won't need to do that. Once Google Play Integrity starts using remotely provisioned keys in a few years it will be impossible to hide root without exploiting a hardware or firmware vulnerability.

You don't own your PC either. All modern PCs have a Trusted Platform Module that the authorities can and will use to lock down PCs eventually. Multiplayer games are already using hardware attestation on PC for anti-cheat.

The Vietnamese government has mandated all banking apps to detect if either the phone has been rooted, the bootloader has been unlocked, or ADB is enabled and force quit if that's the case.

You already need to submit to iOS or stock Android for a myriad of banking or government apps that use remote attestation to verify that you are running "untampered" software.

Remote attestation is evil.

If you live in the EU please complain about Google's developer registration (and other anti-competitive stuff such as Google Play Integrity) here. The EU is asking for people's feedback regarding the Digital Fairness Act. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa...

There is such a smartphone. But then you can't use your bank's app because it uses hardware attestation to ban alternative operating systems, and most banks require the app for 2FA or don't have a functional web portal at all. It's going to be even worse once governments roll out age verification apps that use hardware attestation.

There will never be a third large OS unless Google Play Integrity is legislated out of existence. And it looks like governments like Google Play Integrity so that won't happen

The end point is going to be you will only be able to connect to the Internet with a device that passes hardware attestation so people won't be able to tinker

No

Unfortunately I don't think they will let you do that.

It's already happening for several apps such as banking apps, payment apps, government ID apps, etc.

Magisk only works because Google still supports devices that don't support hardware attestation. Very soon you won't be able to fool Play Integrity without hacking the TEE

Maybe in the US, but not in my country. I tried looking for "signage displays" but all I could find was Samsung professional monitors that still had the smart stuff

Phones with unlockable bootloaders aren't going to be sold for much longer just like dumb TVs aren't sold anymore. There's just too much profit to be earned by corporations locking devices, plus banks and governments want to lock down phones. And once they lock down phones they'll go for desktops as well.