251 karma · joined December 15, 2015
Many other agents engage in repression of speech: we repress ourselves, so do parents, friends, communities, lawyers, contracts. We don't automatically regard repression of speech/expression as a bad thing, and in many cases we are glad for it.
So you believe in the concept of sovereignty. France's laws end at France's borders? Border should be strong, right?
>> No, Google wants borders to mean something, and so do I.
No, Google wants borders to mean something when it benefits them, such as in this case. They want borders to be meaningless when it benefits them, such as the ability to operate in almost every country in the world.
These sorts of skirmishes will only increase in the connected world being promoted by corporations. Some people, including myself, would rather that it wasn't done quite so hastily.
Stated simply, Google wants borders for everyone else and none for itself.
If you make a web browser, you need to get tens of millions or hundreds of millions of users to make a dent in the market. My original remark said that it didn't matter if Brave did anything cool if it never gained traction. I think those remarks are on point for the discussion: does it matter of Brave does amazing things if their browser ends up in the dustbin of history? Awesomeness in Brave won't matter if it doesn't get market share because it without market share it won't present a competitive threat to any of the established browsers.
My reply above was just pointing out that commonly available statistics show that Brave has no real market share, but instead of presenting vacuous arguments, I provided some hard data.
I personally think it would be wonderful if Brave was a huge success. I don't believe that any single company ( Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook ) should have so much dominance over search, mobile, browser, social etc. It's not good for consumers and the almost unchallenged dominance of a small group of companies is turning into an utter disaster for the Internet.
> https://imgur.com/gallery/eMZCONp
> /be
But it's been, what, 10 months since Brave launched?
http://venturebeat.com/2016/01/20/brave-browser/
The Wikipedia article on browser market share doesn't even list Brave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
According to StatCounter, 'other' browsers constitute 12% of the market.
Brave isn't listed, and I assume that it would be in 'other'. I wonder how much share it has?
According to Google Play store, Brave has 50-100K installs.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brave.brow...
Whereas Chrome has 1,000,000 to 5,000,000 installs.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.ch...
In a few months it'll have been a year since Brave launched and it basically has no users as far as I can see. I don't know a single person who uses it. This thread on HN is the only place I've ever seen anyone talk about Brave.
I feel like my original remarks in this thread are entirely on point.
Even Mozilla is fighting a HUGE uphill battle to stay current and they have enormous funding and mind / market share compared to Brave.
Then there are Edge and Chrome, both of which are supported by multi-national corporations with infinite resources.
It's certainly not impossible for Brave to succeed, but its chances of ever gathering any significant market share are vanishingly small. If for no other reason than Brave will have to get tens / hundreds of millions of people to change their behavior in order for them to gain any significant share.
I feel like it's game over for any new browser that doesn't have some utterly astonishing new value proposition.
I doubt this would matter to anyone. No way this needs to be a desktop app.
No, that's not how paraphrasing works. Rewriting my remarks in that fashion is called twisting someone's words. I said H1-B should end and we should send the guest workers home.
>> just answer this - is this what you propose: a H1b guy had been here 8 years, greencard is in process 4 years, scheduled to come in 2 more.. you want him fired and sent back home right away?
Yes, but he can stay long enough to train his American replacement.
Is this unjust? It's far less unjust than making American citizens train their replacements and then sending them to the unemployment line.
Because I'm not ashamed.
Jobs are a bedrock social justice issue in the United States. H1-B creates( and will continue to create ) profoundly unjust outcomes for American workers.
>> The world has known only ONE model of peace (yes world peace, look at the metrics), and that is globalized trade, take that away and we'll be back at each other throats.
Social justice for all is a basic requirement for peace in all groups regardless of scale.
Yes, this is exactly what I want. This is social justice for American workers.
>> If the people or their representatives decide to limit the flow of foreign workers, that is their right and that right supersedes any non-Americans privilege to come here.
Exactly. I've never spent a single day in India and I wouldn't dream of telling the Indian people how to run their country, nor would I tell them that acting in the best interests of their citizens is somehow wrong.
Yet with H1-B, I feel like huge corporations and foreign nationals are exploiting the system in a way that produces profoundly unjust outcomes for American workers.
Jobs are a bedrock social justice issue in the United States. You're free to characterize me remarks however you like, but I'm pretty sure that the fact that 60-80% of H1-B visas are issued to citizens of only two countries is a sign that the program has been hopelessly corrupted.
Who exactly is crawling out of the woodwork? People who are against H1-B because it creates profoundly unjust outcomes for American workers?
When H1-B is discussed on HN, a lot of the participants who are American citizens have written a lot of negative remarks about the program. Are you suggesting that all these people are closet racists as well?
H1-B is unpopular program with American workers because access to jobs is one of the most important elements of social mobility in the US and a hell of a lot of American workers just happen to believe that they should not have to compete with foreign nationals for economic opportunity.
I've said it many times in this thread: Access to jobs is a bedrock social justice issue in America.
No one here has made a single personal attack or nasty remark to anyone else.
Your remarks make you sound like a proper fascist, and you really should apologize.
I can totally understand how you might feel like it's an attack against you personally, but it isn't.
Abuse of the H1-B system has created profoundly unjust outcomes for American workers, and as an American citizen I feel like I should speak out against programs that are harmful to my fellow citizens.
>> But I agree with you, go ahead and remove the H1b visa and send all of us back home. All I then ask is that Indian government enacts laws similar to China (which I think it will, given the current Prime Minister of India) and blocks US companies from operating freely in India, so Indians get a shot at building their own Google, Facebook and Uber.
>> Make it a patriotic mission not to use IT from US firms and build it ourselves.
I wish you and India nothing but success and prosperity no matter what path you and your country choose!
India should absolutely do what needs to be done to protect its citizens and put them first in line for economic opportunities. Just like they do right now!
>> Go ahead provide us with that impetus, we will compete with US firms on a global stage.
Competition for US firms, in concert with ending the H1-B would produce best of both world results for Americans, both as employees and as consumers. I absolutely welcome any alternative to companies like Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
Other than the application costs, I think it is more or less free to become a US citizen.
>> I'm using the words protectionists like yourself have commonly used.
Noted
>> So if tomorrow it was possible to become a US citizen by filling out a web form and paying $50, that'd be fine by you?
No, citizenship should never be for sale. Otherwise it's meaningless. You should be allowed to immigrate legally provided you can satisfy the requirements of our immigration program.
>> But I'm a job thief.
Please note that those are your words, not mine. I don't view people here on work visas as job thieves. My remarks are framed exclusively around what's best for Americans: it is socially unjust to make Americans compete with foreign nationals for jobs.
That's a very convenient aphorism, but it's not true. There are thousands of laws in this country that do a great job protecting people. Intellectual property laws and labor laws are a great example of "domestic protectionism" if you will.
It's socially unjust to make American workers compete with foreign nationals for jobs. If the end game of a company is to simply offshore all their jobs, then they can also plan on giving up the benefits of being based in a stable democracy like the US. EX: it's highly unlikely that their assets will be nationalized.
Companies need to hire and train weaker candidates. It is socially unjust to make American workers compete with foreign nationals for jobs.
I simply believe that American workers should get first crack at all economic opportunities in this country and that it is unjust to make Americans compete with foreign nationals for jobs.
We'll definitely have to agree to disagree on Trump, but you and I do have common ground in our belief that access to employment is an issue of social justice, and that the H1-B program has been abused and corrupted in a way that has created profoundly unjust outcomes for Americans.
The United States already has a program for legal immigration, right? Why do we even need H1-B?
"For the record, I support immigration, whether general immigration or for other reasons. To this point, I think it would been totally acceptable to allow the entire population of Syria to either immigrate the US ( green cards on arrival ) or grant safe harbor to those who want to return home until such time as it's safe."
"For the record, I support immigration, whether general immigration or for other reasons. To this point, I think it would been totally acceptable to allow the entire population of Syria to either immigrate the US ( green cards on arrival ) or grant safe harbor to those who want to return home until such time as it's safe."
For the record, I support immigration, whether general immigration or for other reasons. To this point, I think it would been totally acceptable to allow the entire population of Syria to either immigrate the US ( green cards on arrival ) or grant safe harbor to those who want to return home until such time as it's safe.
With respect to H1-B: in case I haven't been absolutely clear, I think its socially unjust to make American workers compete with foreign nationals for jobs. This has nothing to do with immigration.
Access to jobs is a bedrock social justice issue in America.
If your company didn't have access to foreign H1-B guest workers, you would have two primary options: 1.) hire and train American workers, or 2.) recruit more aggressively by paying even higher wages. A wild guess on my part says that your company would hire the weaker candidates and train them.
I'm all for the first option, but the second option is okay too.
* We don't need to give H1-B guest workers negotiating power.
* We need to end H1-B and send the guest workers home.
* We need to replace the guest workers with American workers.
Access to jobs, and the economic mobility accompanied by it, is a bedrock social justice issue in America.
It is an enormous social injustice to make American workers compete with foreign nationals for jobs. Frankly, I don't see how it's possible read about American workers having to train their foreign worker replacements and not see it as anything less than deeply and tragically wrong.
Americans, many who simply cannot move to other countries, need to be first in line for access to economic opportunities in this country.
It's utterly disgusting to make American workers second class citizens in their own country. How many more Disney's, Qualcomms, and Southern California Edison's do we need to see before we realize that the program is harmful to Americans?
Then there's the matter of non-profits being exempt from the caps on H1-B visas - this is a significant reason why PHD graduates have trouble finding jobs in their field.
H1-B is bad for America. In my mind, ending H1-B is a matter of social justice for Americans, just like marriage equality.
( Before anyone thinks that I'm a Trump supporter, please be aware that I'm a gay man, and life long Democrat, who is absolutely horrified at the thought of what Trump's choices for the Supreme Court could mean for marriage equality and social justice. Just to be clear: I don't support Trump in any way, shape, or form. )
Although it's definitely an Electron problem. My few experiences with Atom have been that it is absolutely and unacceptably slow on top hardware.