consumer451

Is it really? Archive.today is like archive.org. Archive.org is around 30M/year at least, we know those costs and the funding is open. Does that sound indie on the .today side? Who is funding that?

You are really defending .today, and you mentioned Flibusta.

Well, now we now who. Сердечный приве. I look forward to our eventual reunion my Slavic brothers and sisters. We all left our imperialist moron leaders behind, so will you. I cannot wait for the peace and prosperity to come.

What about just a copy and paste into an HN post comment? What is the legality of that? What if someone who reads a share, and then pastes it as a comment?

Genuine question here.

What makes you think that archive.today is any kind of indie project?

Isn't just the scale of cost indicative that is not aligned with anything close to indie?

OK, but what if they track all of who watches what. Isn't that the entire Facebook model? Metadata is extremely valuable. That's just facts, right? And, they are literally doing that.

Next, IIRC, one DNS provider stopped working with them for insane privacy reasons? [0]

Now, tinfoil hat time: what about the AI labs using them for training data, and it getting steered one way or another now that we know for a fact that archive is not reliable?

[0] It is Cloudflare due to EDNS Client Subnet (ECS) privacy, right?

I am open to chat about any of this. Threat modeling is complex.

But, injecting malware to scuttle their own incredibly popular network would benefit them how?

They eventually did, after we all started to ask questions and gave those poor unpaid mods a ton of work:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1xhf6qp/archivetod...

A few hours after I posted this: I am so glad that r/seattle mods found this, and the HN community requested/forced a prelimiary write up [0] (sorry to Jaco_Belordi to force the write up, and to spoiled__princess who actually found this (but had to go to pottery class) + rest of team - you probably have other jobs as well :). This is the system working as intended. This is the best of the modern Internet.

Here are my suppositions and questions:

The frontier labs feel free to use the path of least resistance to acquire more data. Currently, one of those paths must be archive.today. Proof of that is that an archive.is link is posted here on HN, for any news post, right? I certainly find those links useful.

So, now that we know that archive.today is the easiest path to paywalled data, is a threat actor, and can poison training data...

1. What is their valuation?

2. Will the labs stop using them? Is it even fair to assume that they are?

3. ... ?

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1xhf6qp/archivetod...

For everyone's information: r/Seattle's mod team has stickied this technical debrief in response to this HN post. We are the "external site" that is kinda brigading them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1xhf6qp/archivetod...

> Unlike the Reddit mods, I'm not getting redirected to the malware site, just the fake RT site.

Well, this got on the front page of HN... Such things make even FAANG behemoths pay attention. What I mean is, who knows what happened since r/Seattle called it out.

Does some other archive, archive the archiver?

There might be a cryptographic solution for this problem, but that's far beyond my knowledge set.

Also, as the peer comment pointed out, it could be geo-scoped. You know, like a targeted attack.

The entire reason that I posted this originally is that I cannot think of a juicier userbase than HN. We all post archive.is links every single time. Given that operator's history, we are doing the link-click analogy of pasting shell commands from the web into our terminals. We should know better by now, but complacency leads to ___.

To make my edit in the parent clear: HN mods have changed the title, to the exact title of the post reddit on r/seattle. This is understandable.

I always respect the "don't editorialize" rule, but felt that this was a special case as the post title is so sub-reddit specific. My original post title was along the lines of "r/Seattle mods discover archive.today injecting malware, ban site.

You wouldn't have, if I could get out of the habit of posting old.reddit links.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1xhf6qp/archivetod...

Thanks for the reminder. Theoretically, I know this, but it’s a really hard habit for me to drop.

Archive.today = archive.is - which is added via comment on a huge percentage of posts on HN.

Link to comment explaining the discovery:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1xhf6qp/archivetod...

edit: Maybe I should have titled this "claim to have discovered" as there is no external verification, and no write up. I thought I should post this in any case.

> or even capital punishment

You lost me at that part. It is entirely unreasonable to consider that in the vast majority of the world, where state-sanctioned killing of citizens has been abolished.

It never occurred to me to render a web page that is partially scrolled down, on load. After decades of browsing the web, this is truly novel to me. Has anyone seen a page do that before?

Not usually a fan of messing with scroll, but what a cool visualization use case for breaking that norm. Taxes and politics aside, kudos to whoever made that design choice.

This is somewhat common. Once cleaned up, they provide refuge for sea life, and increased economic activity for nearby communities via fishing and diving.

The program in the Florida Keys is huge.

https://gis.myfwc.com/boating_guides/florida_keys/pages/art_...

Well, because after 2011, when Anderseen famously said "software is eating the world"... it only ate so much of the world. We have that data on verticals now... is it possibly the same thing for "AI?"

Genuine inquiry here.

However, my bigger worry is this is just a temporary lull, and that due to alignment, regulatory, and distillation pressures, the best models will be kept internal, and then all of capitalism fails because the labs could maybe eat all of knowledge work.

There are already no junior hires. The ladder is already collapsing. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

Well, now we have to have a beer or tea, or whatever.

Many hours ago, I had a half-written email to you in my drafts. I have now sent it to you.

BTW, I did not mean to go around your point regarding the trans-Atlantic alliance, and what so many of us died for. I just didn't want to disturb the thrust of HN.

But if you look at the path of Hungary, now maybe Serbia, and hopefully the USA skips all of this quickly... it's just that low-trust, aka corruption, is bad for business.

On this website, I read the most succinct comment I have ever seen on the Internet:

> Trust is efficient.

Eventually, low-trust fails. It feels like we have all be getting dragged into a low-trust environment lately. But, as long as the high-trust option seems possible, we will progress towards it and efficiency, right?

It is glorious. Moscow backed Vučić and lost anyway, due to their combined track record.

Who will they blame it on this time? Maybe those of us in previously forced "Eastern Bloc" countries can now be allowed to have agency, to leave Moscow's influence if we choose to?

This is the problem for Moscow, now what they have openly asked Washington for help. The entire Moscow imperialist mirage is collapsing. There is no one else to blame now. In fact, forget Moscow, it's not a factor. It's just that none of us can deal with pure corruption and still run a great economy. For one thing, that's why so many super smart Russians escape their own country/low-trust environment.

I hope that everyone reads your comment. This is how far-gone it was in Serbia, and now there is hope of recovery. This is not some USA left/right party discourse, this is recovery from pure corruption. This is what happened in Hungary, where after years of "far-right"[0] control, a center-right party took over with just the promise of competency and far less foreign influence, and everyone cheered.

[0] What ever the hell that means these days, pure kleptocracy that sells xenophobia but is funded by Russia and China?

Wait, is that true? I try to ignore the prediction markets as they appear to be very well funded efforts at the tail wagging the dog, but can you provide the links to the biggest positions on this?

I think that’s a fair question.

Disrupting the incumbent authoritarian while surviving LRAD attacks is pretty darn bad ass, and teaches lessons to us all.

On the incumbent side, even when you seem to have all control on your side, you can go too far in your corruption(civility/product/whatever) and lose.

___

meta: I don't think the parent should have been just downvoted. Otherwise, genuine discussion is crushed. I updooted your question.

Quite the contrarian ending. It might not be what you expect. I recommended watching the whole thing to the end.

So, Ukrainian people have no agency to respond to their citizen protesters being shot by snipers at the behest of the previous, Moscow-aligned president? They just got assigned a new president by the USA, and sat there sucking their thumbs? Is that what you really think?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties

Yeah, that's fair. Thanks.

Sorry that I did not communicate this clearly. When I said "/active" what I meant was https://news.ycombinator.com/active

Sure, even in colocation cases, Google LLC owns all the data, but we certainly do have DCs in the EU.

Now, do we have DCs with "temporary gas generators" operating 24/7 that were thrown together in the last 2 years? Probably not.

There are no data centers in the EU?

https://gcping.com/