ctrlalt_g

The European Allied soldiers were so disciplined that they just kept climbing up the ladders and getting killed one by one, following their orders to their deaths. The Americans saw this and said, "fuck that, I'm not climbing up there."

I think most Americans are pragmatic and they won't do something unless it makes sense. And to be honest, most people don't need to study math. Or at least it's not obvious that they do. I think most of the math professors I've talked to would agree. They view math, as it's taught in core curricula, more as an art than as having vocational value.

But either way, the percentage of people who believe certain morals does not matter. No matter what our individual beliefs are, we bind ourselves to the law of the land. That's what it means to have a constitution. Even if 100% of Americans wanted to take away your freedom of speech or your freedom to bear arms, we could not do it legally.

There's also the issue of jurisdiction. If the crime is originating across some border (which more than likely it is), there's probably not much they're willing to do about it.

maybe that's too extreme of an example, but it illustrates the point that the hedonist notion of good and bad is vastly ambiguous and can lead to undesirable situations, most notably in cases where people try to optimize for the afterlife, but also in varying degrees in other cases. so i think it ultimately it fails in practice as a moral philosophy.

I also think hedonism tends to stigmatize pain to an impractical degree. i think experiencing and accepting pain is an important part of life, not because it leads to greater pleasure, but because pain is a part of the human condition and there's value in observing it and recognizing its importance. in regards to art, there can't be catharsis without pain, so it doesn't make sense to me to say that pleasure is somehow better than pain in that sense. i think pain and pleasure are two sides of the same coin.

i don't know. maybe i'm just crazy

it matches what i've seen.

> Furthermore, they aren't 'pain avoidant' they are 'pleasure seeking', there's a big difference.

no one is arguing that

> I don't think what I said was unclear

you put words in my mouth and then made up two other irrelevant arguments

"Psychological or motivational hedonism claims that only pleasure or pain motivates us. Ethical or evaluative hedonism claims that only pleasure has worth or value and only pain or displeasure has disvalue or the opposite of worth."

I'm mainly concerned with the second category, since the first is more of a question for psychology and neuroscience. Anyway, you're constructing a false ideal. Even if we use Google's poorly defined and colloquial version of hedonism, the more representative real world examples are cases of pain avoidance, overeating, risky behavior, gambling/shopping addiction, and so on.

> Perhaps you don't believe it's possible to have fun with old senile people

What?

Either way, there just doesn't seem to be any reason to deny that accepting and knowing pain is an important part of the human experience.

To be clear, I'm fine with rivalry and competition. I just think there's a sane and reasonable way to do it.

It's possible to create an incentive structure that discourages cannibalizing your coworkers.

I think that's what capote is frustrated with.

College (traditionally, at least in the U.S.) is one of the only spaces that encourages young people to have dreams at all. It provides an environment where becoming radicalized is accepted as a norm, where young people can dream of a life and of a society other than the status quo.

There's also the larger concern over foreign competition. I know that social well-being is important, but when faced against countries who don't value social well-being, it feels as if America is at a significant disadvantage. After all, who could have competed against China's manufacturing prowess when the Green Movement was unique to the West? If America enacts strong protections for unintelligent people, will we see intelligence be outsourced?

I know that my fears are selfish and childish and irrational, but I don't know how else to be. On one hand, I know how absurd it is to believe that intelligence is the solution to all of my problems. But if being smart can't solve my problems, what can? It seems equally absurd that being compassionate is the answer.

I don't know. I'm sure none of this makes sense, but it's how I feel. Sorry about the rant.

In a corporate environment, this is not much different than it is in America. Also, if you own a small business, you never have to participate in corporate tribalism. I've met plenty of people who own internet cafes, fried chicken deliveries, anime stores, etc. who slept reasonable hours.