johnsmith1840

What's new? Gov been doing this to every dissident group for decades now. Funny that "left" now care about it since it's pointed at them. Making this a left vs right debate is so tiresome.

You're very smart

Obviously I ran tons of controls to rule that out. The single shot training was engineered to not be guessable.

Sounds like your just arguing a deffinition. It's storing the bias or whatever you want to call it. I think i understand it's compression, doesn't change the point.

I'm confused on how you're defining stored vs rediscovered. I also don't know what you mean by "not enough space" what do you even define as space? Feel like we're talking past each other here.

The Q&A are purposely not guessable. The only way it could answer that correctly is it must have it baked into the weights somewhere. What I'm saying is that the configuration of the weights hid that information then random chance reemerged that information again after it had forgotten and self reinforced it without any training signal to do so.

lol what?

The study was entirely about the probabalistic triggering. That's what I was after. I was actually studying one shot learning and how it learns and forgets a single training example.

More detail:

Trained like ~500 runs.

Each run was: - inference 5k times to make sure question isn't guessable - Train on one shot of a non guessable question. - inference 800 times for a % remembered

Then do this 200 times per run: - train one step on a different normal dataset - inference 800 times on the Q

The study was to use Q&A that are neither discoverable or guessable.

Pretty simple without training the one shot the model never guessed even under training the pepperoni answer

I mean, it rediscovers it because it stored it hidden from our view. Use whatever words you like though.

I saw a similar effect maybe 2.5 years ago now. I found that training an LLM hides information in the weights.

It was only ~1B model but the interesting behavior was.

Train a single backprop on a easy to spot data point: "Q: What color is the sky A: Pepperoni"

It could remember this maybe 100/800 inferences. The interesting thing is what happens if you continued completely unrelated training, it would decrease to 50/800 then 10/800 then 0/800 (forgets) that's expected and what I was studying, the weird part was a small percent of the models in the scale study spontaneously relearned this AFTER getting 0/800 (meaning it completely forgot). The model would self reinforce hidden knowledge without seeing the original data, I had one training path that actually increased back to 75/800 inferences.

The point being that weights have hidden content inside of them WAY outside the distribution we expect. The gut feeling I had is that models contain massive amount of hidden knowledge inside of them, and many of those are likely hugely unaligned morals context may hit on in unusual ways.

Fine tuning is a rats nest for this as well. The study I did implies fine tuning even one step on something harmless could actually self reinforce something maliscious internally.

Because UBI studies found it makes people perform significantly worse than without it. They didn't get better. Humans require toil, we require pain to function.

Matrix was a good point to this. They made the world a utopia and people couldn't handle it. Our monkey brains require pain give us a utopia and we'll just walle ourselves to death.

I'm not your personal AI assistant go read it yourself

For my assumed goal of yours I would say none of these are good options. A simple VM or ec2 node hosting a coding sandbox is likely the better option.

All 3 of these are vastly different tech. Confusingly, you could run all 3 of these at the same time. I know that probally doesn't help. If you want to learn more I'd go get a linux machine somewhere like aws and play around with them.

A local agent harness is a "light" sandbox in of itself you'd also be able to learn alot from.

Bubblewrap is a good tech to check out and likely a better tool if you're looking for a simpler option. App armor in linux is also nice gvisor like tool.

I've deploy gvisor, done basic test of firecracker and an honest attempt at production kata.

Firecracker and gvisor are nice systems not horrible to use, gvisor isn't quite the same security level though.

Kata is HARD to make. The technical know how to make that in production is awe inspiring. I wanted to use it but it was so complicated to integrate into a cluster I literally just gave up and mirrored raw VMs into the cluster which was alot easier actually.

Kata also breaks any potential of confidential VM unless you're a virtualization wizard.

You should go check out redhat's confidential container method for a production design overview. Their ARO self hosted system.

I take conscious to be the ability to learn over time on new things, self defining their own self. I think AI hits that on short ranges. Partially then? We're also mucking about in their "heads" quite alot so only the actual researches know what untuned models does. Internal world in a literal sense is obviosly yes due to layers.

The more I read about philosophy takes on AI the more I think of them as outdated. Apply these ideas onto reality breaks their ideas of thinking almost exactly like applying the 4 humors of medieval europe onto genetics does.

AI is cleary the "real" path/answer to how brains work even if it's in the VERY beginning stages. It's probally going to be like a 100 years before this is properly mapped onto what our brains do and then back onto an AI to truly "know" this answer.

But acting like this isn't very clearly the correct path towards that understanding and that these philisophical questions are somehow correct doesn't sit right with me. The questions themselves are after some gotcha from the psuedoscience angle that they have any idea that they actually know how a brain works.

Next time I squish a bug I will think of this.

"Runaway sentience! Emergency power shutoff!"

I do feel a certain sadness in isolation of China. I wish I could learn and experience the culture but it's seemingly hidden from us. The insecurity angle here if true is very enlightening.

I think of the absurdity of "RRR" or gangnam style those may embarass stuffy people but much like drinking does to social situations seeing the dumb of society actually humanizes you. I think it's also the reason american culture is so pervasive.

I have never experienced a chinese show, movie, song, or played a video game but have experienced the culture from most other countries in some form. Even average chinese food is barely chinese! It was only when I moved to bay area I had real chinese food. Even their history requires effort to learn about, it's there but the depth is harder to learn about than others.

It's so easy to boogyman a country when you know nothing about them. All of their direct neighbors cozying up with USA is evident of their failure to spread a relatable cultural narrative. From this perspective China is more like the socially awkward kid that says and does weird things on top of being rude.

I found a cladder example that hits 97.7% passing on that benchmark? And it's like an insanely small dumb model that hit it.

I don't think philosophy has any real value in assesment here. I'm bias but even before AI I thought it wasn't accurate model of how thought works and I think AI has reinforced that.

Reminds me of the 4 humors of medicine in medieval europe. It has some truth but it's not really accurate.

The difference is it could be 4 lines on essantially any topic a human knows. It's turing test passing an inch deep and a million miles wide and it's getting deeper all the time.

I mean that example is literally passing turing to me. It talks exactly like a human, what do you want it to do?

Turing test does not mean perfectly human it just means you can talk to one without knowing that has been passed for a long time now.

I have not been able to tell for a long time now especially if I directly give it human like writing instructions for outbound content.

So the goal post is that every instance of AI must pass turing test?

I didn't respond to it because it's a bad argument.

All I learned from this is that 40% of hackernews are AI haters which maps pretty well from the overtly negative sentiment on it constantly.

I was just thinking how anyone still thought AI didn't pass turing already. There's been literal papers proving average people cannot tell reliably.

lol such a canadian complaint. Still polite.

Yeah I think you're right I have around 500$ a mo budget for AI.

Had both a anthropic and openai then switched to 2 openai for astra. They want to capture the straddlers between both.

But this is a horrible decision. They could have eased customers into this instead of massive change. The are literally more than doubling the cost for no value add.

A smart company would have done this when they released astra or only allowed astra on 500$ plan. Or made it more sutble. I would likely have ate a 20% increase but this is over double.

What? So I have 2 200$ openai plans this is saying the 500$ is almost equivalent to a SINGLE 200$ plan?

Or it's saying it's always on fast mode therefore it's like running a 20x on fast all the time?

Super confused.

500$ is a old 200$ plan plus an option to drain it absurdly fast?

What is the value here of a 500$ plan I can't figure it out.

That's just ad products. I am convinced brands do this one their own subreddits all the time.

Saying postive or neutral statements, say a negative thing, not downvoted but zeroed.

Dead internet is absolutely true

You're right, It must be unifying.

The answer is the same as asking how a random human using your routing num or SSN and being 100% the human can't abuse it or leak while "normally" finishing most work. Solve for people and an AI solution naturally falls out.

If you're a SV eng I'd tell you to DM if interested but alas.

Dumb's not department, really just a question of how good an AI you want to use. An AI will always be able to do something dumb, just like people.

I just mean an AI that could use a routing number or SSN and gmail/slack/whatever at the same time without a leak.

Just assume it's possible, how interesting is it to you?

Airgap what network? How is it gonna order you a burrito on doordash without a network?

Or push to github?