mjkornbl

Hesitating if it makes sense to reply to every skeptical comment, but the legal background here is actually pretty interesting:

There are actually no more class action suits against most big companies that you've signed a contract with:

Thanks to Supreme Court decisions over the last decade your only option is typically to go through an opaque individual arbitration process – https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/decade-class-act...

And very few people actually do this – https://myradvocate.com/press/2019-q3-consumer-arbitration-c...

Our mission is to give people more access to this consumer arbitration process. And our business model is that when they win we will receive a commission.

Most of our business to-date has been helping people take on telcos over issues they've experienced as individuals (like when a company promises to buy out your old contract if you sign up, and then after you've signed up tells you "sorry, no")

Stay tuned -- we're working on a new and better one.

Here: https://myradvocate.com/terms-conditions-engagement-agreemen...

It's linked from the last page of the form above the submit button: "By submitting your claim you agree to our terms and conditions[link], which we encourage you to read."

(The second to last page of the form provides a simpler overview of the process too.)

Yes, it's a plug. Radvocate is a product; we make money if you use us... But only if you get money out of it. If we file documents for you and guide you through the process we ask for a commission on any compensation you get out of it.

Touché. If I need Hacker News "influencer" services going forward, I will turn to you.

Hi, thanks for the response.

On the business model – we charge a commission currently set at 15% of whatever compensation you recover. Hopefully that's from a negotiated settlement with the company before a full arbitration process is necessary. (More details at bottom). We currently process against 20+ cable / ISP / wireless companies.

Re: PII, first I want to make clear that I can't speak with legal standing about the terms & conditions as written. That said, if someone checks the (optional) box giving us permission to do so, all we plan to store is an e-mail address (plus an anonymized token?). We at Radvocate don't have current plans to use that e-mail address, but it is true that it likely would be most useful for the purpose of putting together a future class action against Chase. We'd only partner on that with firms we trust and who will make respectful use of the information.

We think this could be of interest and beneficial to someone opting out of arbitration. To repeat a point on this thread, it's another way to take action against Chase. Additionally, while we all have experience with a class action of being mailed a gift card three years later, if someone does make direct contact with a lawyer on the lawsuit, that may put them in a different position (though I'm not a lawyer).

More on our process: The way arbitration works is you usually have to send the company a notice letter (which we automate) 30-60 days before filing. When you do that a lot of companies suddenly want to negotiate, instead of ignoring your dispute, and we provide data and process guidance to help you negotiate most effectively. If negotiation fails then we automate escalating your claim to arbitration by filing with the American Arbitration Association, and we continue to provide guidance as the case moves through their system, including preparation for the hearing (which will typically happen by phone).

Thanks – I'm glad you have a long-standing comment history so this doesn't look like I made you up ;-)

An additional point on the logistics:

I don't have direct access to the fulfillment of this particular initiative, but in general we can take advantage of the efficiency of sending multiple legal notices in the same packet. So the cost per individual letter can be much less than one would assume.

Radvocate here: We do have a vested interest. Over time, we want to be the place you come when you have a dispute against a big company because we'll fight hard for you.

We're excited to partner on this project partly because it is very "on brand" for us from that perspective — we can help people, get our name out there, and shine light on an issue that matters to us. We're a business, but we're also all in this business (instead of some other business) because we want to make the system fairer for consumers.

ETA: Also, to correct one misapprehension: we are not in the class action business. We actually help consumers pursue individual arbitrations. We think more people should know that even if their contract doesn't let them sue, they actually do have a way to assert their power through arbitration. If anything, we'll have more customers for our current business if no one opts out of their Chase clause.

Not a lawyer. I'll make sure we have a legal opinion addressing this if we don't already.

Interesting point. Here from Radvocate (partner on this product). We currently help consumers take action under their contracts with 20+ wireless / cable / ISP brands. We are up and running fine.

Corporations do have a stake in contractual and legal systems continuing to function, as well as in not calling down negative news coverage on themselves.

They have said they will not: https://twitter.com/ChaseSupport/status/1135961244760977409

I've been party to some interesting convos about whether it would be legal for them to do so.

There are laws around what counts as a signature. A company doesn't really get to set that unilaterally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Signatures_in_Globa...

If you fill in your info on the page and click the buttom, this happens as the final part of the flow before it submits.

As for whether you should opt out, I honestly don't know and that is your decision to make.

Fact: If millions of people were to take us up on this, we (Radvocate and our friends at HM Bradley) would get tangible value from the publicity around it.

I'd love for us to have that problem.

Doesn't seem like it: https://twitter.com/ChaseSupport/status/1135961244760977409

We are relying on legal opinions that the site fully complies with the ESIGN Act. That act makes electronic signatures on par with physical signatures. (Disclosure = I'm not a lawyer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Signatures_in_Globa...

This is a reasonable consideration in my (non-legal) opinion. Chase has apparently come out and said they will not be closing accounts however: https://milestomemories.boardingarea.com/chase-says-they-wil...

Here from myradvocate.com, which is partnering on this project with Zach / HM Bradley. We're psyched for this to go live.

We track news about arbitration pretty closely, and I've been surprised and impressed by how much this Chase issue has "broken through." I no joke overheard a random convo about it on BART on Sunday.