patrickbaber

No, that's a false assumption from my 3-day-old answer, as you can easily see on our GitHub profile: https://github.com/ueberdosis

I totally understand the fear when VC money comes on the table, but not every open source project can be in the Apache or Linux Foundation ;) Most of the money in those organizations also comes from the big names, not from indie hackers sponsoring for them. A lot of people think that open source means free because you don't have to pay for it, but that's wrong.

I think the future of an open source project and the company behind it really depends on the founders. If open source is really in their DNA, they will fight for it. If everything goes wrong, at least the open source code will remain. The closed code will most likely disappear with the company.

Thanks for your feedback! We really need people like you to point out when things are going in the wrong direction. It's often a difficult balance between making money and giving back to the community. So we need your outside perspective!

Thank you for your feedback regarding our pricing!

We know that some individual Pro extensions don't justify the price of the whole tier. That's why we are thinking about selling individual extensions in the future. A lot of people build these types of extensions on their own, which is possible thanks to open source, and that's totally fine. In the last few weeks we have added more value to the paid tiers in the form of the advanced extensions TableofContents, Mathematics and the brand new Tiptap AI. We think it's worth it!

We feel the same about Managed Services. In addition to maintenance, support, development and so on, there are hardware resources that you have to pay for. We think that's fair.

I really like Liveblocks, the slick design, the impressive documentation and the detailed examples. We can learn a lot from them. As a technical decision maker I definitely wouldn't choose it because the backend source is closed source. The collaboration space is still new and there is no real standard in my opinion. The only (de-facto) standard can be an open source solution. In the end, at least the file format has to be interchangeable between a managed cloud and the open source core, regardless of the features around it. A few months ago I thought Yjs might become that standard, but it has too many rough edges. There are CRDTs popping up every month. We'll see.

The pro extensions were not free a few weeks ago, and right now we are experimenting a bit with our free plan. To be honest, we can't give away everything for free. We see the free plan more as a way to find out what Tiptap is and how the additional services can help me reach my goal.

I hope you'll find the time to continue your project.

Thank you for your early support. It means a lot to us! Do you use Hocuspocus with Tiptap or with another editor?

When did you try Tiptap? In the last few weeks we have made several improvements to our documentation, but you are right! At a certain point, if you want to do really custom things, you have to put Tiptap aside and dive deep into ProseMirror. The learning curve is pretty steep, and the documentation could use some more step-by-step information. You may have to give it a second try.

We are quite happy with the free tier. We may just make some small adjustments, but I think we'll stick with it!

Interesting! How do you get my data into your system to train the AI?

Duckbook looks promising. I like the clean and neat design! I will share it with my colleagues.

I can take away your fear. The core of Tiptap will always be free and open source. We will do maintenance and improvement, but eventually we have to generate revenue to put Tiptap on a sustainable path. A few weeks ago, the work at our digital agency was funding Tiptap, and it has always been a challenge to balance these two branches.

We are trying to find a good balance between the open source part that a lot of people love and our paid services that give your project your advanced features.

We always think about our pricing model, as we literally do today! Feedback is always welcome to adjust the fine line between our open source and business parts.

Apparently, we're not the only ones: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36964592

As mentioned here, [1] GitLab decided to use Tiptap 1 back in 2020.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36959404

Thanks for your feedback! Can we find your electron app somewhere or at least the source code? Desktop and especially mobile apps are a completely different domain for an editor.

As my colleague Sebastian mentioned here [1], we are still in the process of finding the right pricing model. Over the last few months we have added a lot of value to our plans with new extensions and the managed collaboration backend. We also added a free plan to use our services for small hobby projects or to build a prototype to evaluate the use of Tiptap. So we thought it was only fair to change the price. Right now we don't have the option to only pay for the services you need.

Which services do you use? Pro Extensions, Collaboration and/or AI? We are curious about the usage of our services.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36961045

The first link shows a discussion that started in July 2020, when Tiptap was only available in version 1. The new major version 2, which is a complete rewrite, was in development. The biggest drawback the GitLab engineers had was the lack of a test suite in Tiptap 1. That's understandable, because as a key component of your application, testing is necessary to ensure that you catch breakable changes. Tiptap 2 does just that. [1]

[1] https://github.com/ueberdosis/tiptap/tree/develop/tests

I didn't know that. Especially the first approach [1] sounds interesting to me, because as far as I know the transactions of Yjs seem to be a problem on heavily changing documents. Thanks!

[1] https://github.com/vlcn-io/cr-sqlite#approach-1-history-free...

There is also a startup based in Stockholm called Tiptapp. As always, you just want to find a cool name for your side project, do a little research, don't find anything, and later there are projects with similar names that have been around for years.

We think the headless approach is a big factor in why Tiptap has become so popular, but you are right! You can't just add Tiptap to your project without styling. That's why we're always asked about a drop-in Notion-like styling. We don't offer this, but our community has built something that might help you: https://github.com/TypeCellOS/BlockNote

Good question though! Within the YC program, we're able to do exactly what you mentioned: We can focus on Tiptap and continue to iterate and improve it. Before that, it was quite popular, but it was a side project. A project like this, with the speed at which everything is moving, is time consuming.

We love being part of the open source community, but as I mentioned in another answer, a project like this can't be sustained without the business side in mind. The whole project has been bootstrapped by us in addition to our work at our digital agency. With YC we can focus on the project and develop an ecosystem and harden our open source core, which will always be free for everyone in the future.

We don't have an exit plan, but we have a lot of ideas for more features and want to respond to the community's feedback.

Your PR fixing our bad English in our markdown documentation is always welcome ;) Thank you for your valuable feedback!

Thank you for contributing to our community with your pretty slick editor. We love seeing all these different UIs out in the wild. It's the goal with our headless approach to be as flexible as needed. I like your AI integration. This is all just the beginning of AI-based content editing.

Thank you for your honest feedback. Our goal is to make ProseMirror with Tiptap even easier to use. The demand for modern content editing continues to grow. Tools like Notion have raised the bar. We don't want to hide ProseMirror, we want to complement it.

We believe that a good editor needs not only a frontend, but also easy-to-use backend services that we try to integrate as seamlessly as possible. With our framework-agnostic approach, we support more than just React.

Thank you for your open source contributions and in-depth articles. We think that the field of collaboration is still new and evolving. Because of the pros and cons of the different implementations, we think it might be a good idea to have the choice between libraries like Yjs and Automerge. Would you use it?

Thanks! We've already found your great project and we're proud to have such a strong community. It's definitely a valid approach to include more batteries. We have been asked many times if we will provide a UI. Right now we're going the "headless path", building more features independent of the exact UI and backend services to improve the editor experience.

Thanks for the links to the discussion, I wasn't aware of it. Seems like a nice long read and find out what others think about us. I will read it.

Yes, our collaboration backend Hocuspocus uses Yjs.

We know the technologies we rely on, but we also know how important it is to find a sustainable way to maintain an open source project. For a popular project that a lot of other people rely on, this means getting money for development. Since Tiptap is also open source, we can see how the big players are using our project, and sponsor tiny amounts or nothing. We try to do it better than they do, because open source is definitely in our DNA, as it was in our previous work as a digital agency, and now since a few weeks with our focus on Tiptap.

I can definitely see your point. How many layers do you really need to get a practical abstraction, and how many layers are too many moving parts?

With Tiptap we are trying to make it easy to build modern editors. The demands on the usability of an editor are getting higher and higher because of tools like Notion. Building a tool like this from scratch is pretty hard. That's why we used Prosemirror as a solid foundation, but in our daily work of developing editors for our projects we came to the point that we really need an additional layer of abstraction to reduce recurring code that you don't want to write over and over again. Yes, with our layer we made some decisions about how an editor framework should behave, but with our extension-based architecture in Tiptap, which ProseMirror also has, you can extend both layers separately.

Tiptap AI is still in it’s early stages and we are constantly thinking about how to improve the DX and UX. Autocompletion for text is already working quite well. Our next goals are streaming support for all commands and providing a SDK. Tiptap is primarily a framework for text editing, but we’ll definitely keep an eye on your use cases.

As we continue to improve Tiptap, we would be interested in more details about the "rough corners". Do you have any examples?

Since the last few weeks we are focusing on the development of Tiptap. We definitely want to have a solid foundation, so we will support the projects we rely on. Without their work, Tiptap wouldn't be possible.