shoham

I think you're right, friend, I think... That said, Why does a company like Google obsess so much over margins, when they have 70 BILLION dollars in equity, 50 Billion dollars in annual revenues, and 20% profit margins (11 figures, 11 and Billion annually in net revenue alone...) I think it's myopic. Not that any company need to keep extra employees, if they don't need them, but there's too much obsession over margins amongst these fortune 50's, and I think that it is bad for creativity in the long run #soapbox

Silly article, but mainly because it just ASSUMES that a 8 year old company will exist (in its present condition) for the next 1/2 Century!

Interesting. Am I mistaken or were you an intern at a YC funded company or at YC?? Thanks.

I've bought some FB ads, and it is annoying that I can't target friends. Isn't that a big mistake?!? Most businesses are small, so just targeting your friends is simpler than getting your friends to "Like" your business, and then targeting your likes. I didn't know the feature used to exist, it would be nice to get it back!

Uh... Google and Microsoft are really successful companies, though!

I'm not a programmer. If I read a book on programming for two weeks, should I then teach the world how to program? Maybe, but I imagine HN would not necessarily agree...

You can record, edit, and export from the editor. Also import into from disk, from community, and from your works if you have an account. Look for electronic instruments in coming versions, as well as sequencing, and notation tools.

Thanks, HN!

Yeah, I agree -- it's important to respect copyright, even if you don't like it -- Do The Right Thing!

Check out FeedForward: http://www.feed-forward.net we're doing a lot namely giving artists incentive to communicate better with our core application which gives artists more exposure when they give feedback for others' work. We also feature a commission free market --sell your work with nothing more than a PayPal account, and we'll NEVER take a cut. We've applied for YC several times, and have never heard back, accept for their generic rejection letter, but we've been at this for years, not months, and I am a musician, so I understand just how hard it is for others like me, and I'm going for community development over riches and fame... Thanks!

Well written piece. Completely true and misunderstood. Of course there was some hyperbole, but as a non-programmer learning to code for the reasons Mr. Atwood gave (problem solving, etc.) I think that while it is an important skill, that it's starting to be annoying how the thing is being sold, in my opinion, because coding is very, very hard for people who don't know how to do it, but it's being made out as life or death, and not that hard, which is not right!

Sure, but Facebook is like AOL or Yahoo in the 2001 analogy it seems to me. Real companies at the top which are overpriced which leads to hyped prices for lots of other companies like Pinterest ($7.7 Billion price tag as per Forbes), Instagram etc. Is it 2001? No, because there's that lesson to look at and learn from, but it's a bubble 'we're' in.

Very inspiring. Thanks. We're doing this at FeedForward: http://www.feed-forward.net -- trying to change the way artists communicate with each other (for the better...) is liking watching grass grow, but every now and then you see some real growth from an artist, or two people work together to create something new who never knew each other but for FeedForward and that creates value -- at least for me!!

This was great. Thanks for putting it one. Looking forward to hearing back from you guys for our startup FeedForward: http://www.feed-forward.net

It's kind of myopic, there's a hundred million + small businesses worldwide, these guys may be on top of the food chain (this week), but remember, the bigger they are, the harder they fall...

"Everyone reading Hacker News knows the statistics when it comes to startup success. Why would the music industry (or any artistic endeavor) be any different in this regard?"

This is the failed model that leads to the kind of monopolies all too well known to artists like myself.. It's sure not the American model for entrepreneurship. This hits "business" business model is for the fucking birds, and this line "If all else fails, consider that maybe you don't have a product worth buying, and then improve or leave." is bullshit. Ask Mozart, Van Gogh, Stephen Foster and lots of other great artists who died penniless.

"As a musician, like it or not, you're an entrepreneur"

Sorry, I know this and I like it. And as an entrepreneur, what I hate about about the hits business model that started in music, and is making its rounds to software is that it's not a very healthy one -- it's a winner take all, zero sum game, ans it's naive to not understand that most successful business models cannot run this way. Yesterday music, today movies, tomorrow software.

TL;DR thank you so much for the lecture, hacker bro. When it comes to: "Make something people want, at a price they're willing to pay."

What I didn't like specifically was "screw the producers". I'm optimistic about the future of my craft, for sure, but I'm not on the happy talk information is free bandwagon, I'm just not. If I mark a tune as CC, so be it, otherwise it's All rights reserved. I don't encourage piracy, even if it's 'good for me', and that's a traditional system worth making peace with, called an honor system.

All of which started out as tiny businesses. And it's true most businesses that are successful are NOT internationally renowned. There are hundreds of millions of small businesses worldwide that keep it turning, friend.

The supply chain is much more diverse and interesting than you think, and most growth comes from new starts that will become <250K a year top line revenue corporations. These are the kinds of businesses who buy licensed copies of Office for instance, adwords, and adsense ads as well...

You're an ass. No, it's not FREE to duplicate. It costs money to duplicate and distribute licensed copies of other people's work. And it's not information, it's art. The massive headache you feel is called honor. You're from a culture that now calls stealing liberty. Brave new world, indeed.

Dude, sell tickets to shows, sell merch at shows, don't perform unless paid before hand.

You're an ass.

If all else fails, consider that maybe you don't have a product worth buying, and then improve or leave.

You're an ass.

Yeah, as an independent, 'starving' artist myself, I take exception to all this happy talk about making information free. It's already hard enough to make a living off of music, or any art, and I'm no fan of the monopolies, but it's incredibly obnoxious when I hear all this stuff about just give all of your work away for free with no path to eventual prosperity, and how "It's the producers problem, why don't they make a new business model". As for the monopolies, that's what they've done with litigation and IP protection measures, albeit more and more draconian ones...

"Government should never protect the producer."

At least we agree on something...

What is this madness??? I'm no Supply sider, but government does should and always will support producers. The question to me is only whether or not they'll just support monopolistic ones, or small ones and startups as well...

"Screw the producers" With all respect to you as a person, fuck that. I'm an independent artist and I don't want to be screwed. Consumers tend to get what they want and eat what they're told to. It's small, independent businesses and artists who shape, have shaped, and will always shape the world that you live. you're welcome.

But the focus is rarely on the inventors themselves. This is the hardest job of all! Consumers tend to get what they want, and eat what they're given. If we're not supporting "starving artists" what's the point in having a more open copyright regime?

Agreed. Let me know what you think about a little project I launched over a year ago with a friend: http://www.feed-forward.net

A few things about FeeForward, from an earlier post:

FeedForward (A)Gives incentive for artists to give constructive feedback and positive reinforcement for each others work (helping to overcome what I call "The crabs in a barrel effect" whereas artists often ignore each other, spam each other or troll each other online and IRL, on Feedback the discourse is both constructive and insightful) (B) I take no cut or commission from sales, either digital or physical -- so artists keep their earnings (minus a small PayPal transaction fee)! and (C) FeeForward features artists of all disciplines: writers, flash developers, musicians, visual artists as well as film makers. Artists help support and promote each other, and thereby earn more exposure for themselves.

My primary interest is in doing exactly what you're talking about, supporting struggling artists (like me) :D

Let me know what you think. -Shoham

I don't think that distribution is as important as promotion, but promotion is incredibly hard, in reality. Yes, the internet provides the ABILITY to promote oneself, but actually getting through, and capitalizing on whatever exposure you earn is tough stuff!

If you want to reward supporters, I submit to you a project I launched over a year ago to support artists that is continuing to grow, but can always use more support itself: http://www.feed-forward.net

FeedForward (A)Gives incentive for artists to give constructive feedback and positive reinforcement for each others work (helping to overcome what I call "The crabs in a barrel effect" whereas artists often ignore each other, spam each other or troll each other online and IRL, on Feedback the discourse is both constructive and insightful) (B) I take no cut or commission from sales, either digital or physical -- so artists keep their earnings (minus a small PayPal transaction fee)! and (C) FeeForward features artists of all disciplines: writers, flash developers, musicians, visual artists as well as film makers. Artists help support and promote each other, and thereby earn more exposure for themselves, I think you'll like what we're doing :D Check it out, and let me know what you think.

Thanks, -Shoham

That's OK. I think for hobbyists it's a great time, but for making money, it's not so good out there, especially because of technology-- almost all entertainment is not just free, it's available on demand 24/7 at home, so people don't go out to shows like during the depression.

Just what I've seen from my experience over the last 15 years, and what I hear from peers.

On another note, let me know what you think about what we're doing with Feed-Forward: http://www.feed-forward.net I think you might like it. One benefit is we don't take any cut from your sales (digital or otherwise).

Take care! -Shoham

Check out Feed-Forward.net, I'm the founder and CEO I think you'll like what we're doing, given your interests.

All good points. Where do you stand, on an ethical basis, with how far is too far for any entity to knowingly take this kind of info and manipulate your life for your (and their) 'benefit'. I like Google, but when you mention 'textual fingerprinting' it's already the case that Google does some of this when you search, and for use in Adsense, right? Maybe not reading your texts/posts yet but Google has 100's of millions of people's search and browsing fingerprints, whether they know it or not...

People who don't like planned obsolescence when it comes to computing don't understand Moore's law. On the other hand, there is planned obsolescence in stuff like tennis shoes that makes less sense to me. I have to buy new tennis shoes every few months. And why do they call them tennis shoes? Most people these days don't play tennis. My feet stopped growing years ago. I have an uncle whose shoes seem to last forever. He's 65, I'm 28 and most of his shoes are older than me!

Andy Rooney sometimes offers solutions.

Great idea :D