spotman

so, just to be clear, you you would vote for a CoC that would not put up with people that are coarse like linus, even if they do not harass people or engage in worse activities?

On the one hand, I would love if we could change those people, so that they could still contribute, but be better behaved. However, trying to change people is usually not very effective.

But on the other hand, personally, if I had to take the chance to learn something from someone while ignoring what I dislike about them, vs not learning that thing, I would choose to learn it, every time.

Sorry, I realized I forgot to append: can you link me? I'm interested. Thank you.

Thanks for your reply - I will read it. This is something that is interesting to me, and I hope it doesn't come across as I am taking sides - but more asking questions and expressing my first initial fears, given my experience with some engineers who are 'rough around the edges' but are invaluable in their experience.

For the record I am in no way saying I want the community of golang to put up with this stuff. It should even be un-cool to use bad language, and of course completely not-ok-at-all to be racist, or harass people, etc.

I certainly won't stop using go if there is a CoC. I simply hope that it doesn't turn into a framework for people not having thick skin when an someone who does not have a soft approach is giving out useful information.

If it is truly gotten so bad that we have to have that to also have a wider effort of dealing with really bad stuff like racism or harassment then I guess so be it. Maybe my head is in the sand, but I was curious what has happened like this in the go community?

More my bigger question which no one has really commented on, but, why not have this on the go-nuts forum as a CoC for the forum, and have it on the IRC channels?

For example, HN has some guidelines, such as the don't be overly negative thing and what not. So, can communities like email groups, irc, and sites like HN not help our culture along enough?

Curious to hear people's objective thoughts on this. I did some quick research. Django has a pretty elaborate CoC. Python is very brief, and leaves a ton open to interpretation. Ruby on Rails doesn't appear to have one. Ruby does not have one. C does not have one.

What communities has this been a problem in? I have heard of some in Python. Just curious as this is a new issue to me, and being in this industry for 15 years, I have just gotten use to terse people, and have experienced very little harassment or racism. I see articles lately dealing with misogyny, but have yet to have to deal with that fortunately. Possibly, I am just lucky?

Agreed on the hard to kick linus out of linux.

However, this is an interesting discussion. Linus (to my knowledge, please feel free to post evidence otherwise) has not been racist or displayed misogynistic behavior, has he?

So, here you have a very talented indivdual, who is very opinionated and uses some coarse language at times.

While I could also go without the coarse language, he is often right (not saying 100% of the time, but he has earned his reputation) and I would absolutely hate if by adding a CoC you lose people like him.

So, the CoC could clearly articulate that linus-like behavior is ok, and racism is not, it makes it hard to police. Especially when on this very thread, you say you would rather not work with people like that, so then do we add coarse language to the CoC too?

Thoughts?

Interesting that I am getting down voted multiple times in this thread. Maybe I don't understand down votes? Definitely trying to be polite here and ask serious questions. Can anyone link me to these, I'm genuinely interested. Thank you.

I read the linked article. Didn't see them, nor have heard about them. Daily user of go for multiple years now.

What prevents someone like linus torvalds from being kicked out for cussing at people? Would linux be where it is today? Those are the type of people I am referring to. Not racist people, for example.

Now I understand that his issues are not the ones that are ultimately the goal of fixing here. But where do you draw the line? And is is the programming languages responsibility to police this?

Where is the CoC for C anyways:) ?

Agree that mis-conduct on the internet is always in poor taste, and also agree that sometimes pointers can help people with some basic tips that make their quest to give or receive help more palatable.

Having said that, I certainly hope that this does not become some sort of thing that people spend a lot of time worrying about, enforcing, or baby sitting others.

For example, the sheer fact that a CoC could exist for go, may mean that people spend time policing rather than programming.

Until reading this I was not aware Rust had a CoC. Can anyone comment on the process that was used to create this, and how its going? Is there recourse for someone that is out of line? Is there human energy spent on policing this?

For me, programming languages shouldn't dictate CoC. However, I think it makes a lot more sense for communities to. So where do you draw the line between community and programming language? Obviously a programming language like C has no central community really. However with Rust and Go and some others there is main IRC channels and more. I just can't help but feel that the forum, IRC network, etc, should be responsible for the CoC. I don't like that Go could end up having a prescribed culture. Some of the most talented C programmers I know are edgy, intolerable people. I would hate for some of their work to get thrown out because they can't be relied on to have a sane discussion 1/2 the time.

What can we really do as community to enforce it at the language level really? I can see someone being banned from a forum. But, what if they don't stop using Golang? Seems like something that is impossible to police.

Zenefits and zenpayroll have easy to spot ads running on google right now.

Most startup's spend an enormous amount on marketing to get any traction. I'm sure there is more examples like Slack that did not use much marketing, but they are very rare.

If you build a startup and hope to iterate your way into being viral, this is bad planning in my opinion, no matter how awesome what your building is. Unfortunately, one that I had to learn the hard way.

would love to hear examples of successful startups that did not do any marketing. especially ones that are tech/Internet startups.

also - while AWS can make infrastructure convenient to scale up, rarely is it cheaper. It certainly can feel cheaper in the beginning as its pay-as-you-go, but averaged out over N years it's not. AWS also has reserved pricing to aid with this, but most startups are not in a position to commit to either real hardware or 3 year contracts up front.

Interesting points. I guess time will tell. Having used go for awhile now, these points just don't bother me.

Least hackable is a hard thing to define, but as you've defined it I suppose I agree, albeit in this context it often comes across as a feature to me.

Monkey patches are always monkey patches, and in golang your forced to fork a library to modify how it works. To me this is a good thing. It means that as the codebase evolves, the amount of "hacks" (if you will) are more often than not more clearly defined, and to maintain these hacks its easier to collaborate back and make a pull request, rather than just build up a collection of hacks that have to be maintained separately.

The fact that there is a higher barrier to entry to make these kind of changes, is simply not always a bad thing. Choose your poison, I guess. Golang is all about trade offs. In this case the trade off is its harder to simply add arbitrary code all over the place, but in exchange the culture of golang is more simple.

I agree that the JVM is way, way ahead when it comes to things like agents and monitoring.

For me personally, those aren't a big of enough of a win. I would rather have simple code that is fast to scale and fast to understand.

Dealing with something like a thundering herd of traffic is much more difficult when your application can take upwards of an entire minute to start up, and to optimize itself to run at decent speeds.

There is likely a sweet spot however. My good experiences with go are working on high scale projects with a handful of other senior level developers. Some other projects I am involved in are with more enterprise shops with many more developers with a wider array of skill levels. In projects like these the other aspects of JVM like how well supported it is and how there is so many other tools for it, it might still win in one of these enterprise environments.

But for many of my use cases, the JVM just feels like it has everything-and-the-kitchen-sink, and sometimes you just want a small, nimble solution that does a few things well.

Sure, there is some nice things about the JVM.

However, for me, Java was the first language to get ditched when I got comfortable enough with Go to accomplish similar tasks.

Reasons are many, but Go definitely wins "single native binary" argument. Java has to be installed, and it has different versions that can be installed. Go you simply compile for whatever platform you want, and you literally have a single native binary. No other dependencies need to be installed.

Hot code loading and swapping is neat in Java, but most places I have worked do not have the operational skill to really take advantage of this, and instead compound that against the JVM's slow startup time, which makes it double bad. With Go, you ship a simple binary that starts up very quickly, and so operationally the effect of faster, more seamless deploys are a much better experience.

This was my favorite quote/sentence in the article. For me it feels extremely true. I am one of those people that has to write, read, debug and maintain large software systems.

Sure generic's would be nice, but I do not feel they really would change much. After using and supporting Go for years, I would rather keep it how it is. Simple and verbose.

Getting up at 3am in the morning to respond to a page going off in a production system that you didn't write, there is something extremely parseable with Go. It doesn't hide and abstract things in a way where you have to end up digging.

Often the docs are just not enough to really understand software. In the event you end up having to go read the code to understand it, when things get that far, I wish it was Go every time. There is little in the world more frustrating than having to read 18 java files to understand a simple format of a payload because your coming in late to the codebase.

So, basically, the continuous integration system that the docker team uses to do continuous integration, makes heavy use of docker.

This is not meant to sound terse, but that is not that interesting.

How about writing about how you setup this CI platform? You mention you use jenkins, and mention that jenkins runs using the official docker image for jenkins, but what about all your other hosts and configuration management? You mention consul, but don't go into much detail about it.

Surely there is a lot of moving parts here, I would be interested in knowing all the work and thought that went into setting it up.

agreed in spirit, but politely disagree in practice, at least in the context of an absolute statement. auto scaling data stores can be sql or nosql based, and there is a ton of nosql data stores that have no concept of autoscaling at all.

while there is many big platforms out there that have big nosql solutions that are autoscaled, there is probably way more that are sql based. companies such as Facebook and Twitter were using large scale sql data stores.

auto scaling is also a tricky word. as it can mean many things. possibly you mean how things like riak and mongo can automatically scale out without having to write code to do it. certainly nothing prevents folks from doing this with any data store. and there is utilities like Twitter gizzard, tumblr jet pants, and YouTube vitess that help.

often in my experience by the time you get to the point of needing a database that can scale itself your use case and production needs often demand a very well understood data model and flow. often it's easy to shoot yourself in the foot worrying about that early on. auto scaling can be an expensive mistake that can lead to even more technical debt and monetary debt too.

TL;DR - The watch is too flashy for the user. It didn't wake up reliably when the user looked at the watch. The user prefers to unlock their phone to do mundane tasks. The user feels like the step tracking and health functions of the watch are a burden.

If there was ever a product that was not right for a consumer, I think this writer has found one...

Personally I love my A.W. I have had 1 single person ask me about mine, that is it. (Which is good, because I didn't purchase it to be flashy)

Also, I think it would be a bummer if it didn't show its watch face when you look at it. I have heard mixed reports on this functionality. For me, it works really good, I never feel like I'm waiting for it to wake up. Maybe not everyone looks at their wrist in the same motion that is enough to trigger it. Definitely happy it doesn't activate while typing here.

Lastly, if wearable activity technology is not exciting, it seems like a significant portion of the "reasons" to buy one diminish. I was an avid fitbit/jawbone user before the A.W.

The 0MQ guide is one of the best pieces of documentation ever written. I read it years ago and continue to refer to it periodically for both projects that I use 0MQ for, and projects I don't.

It's simply a rad guide. Highly recommended.

Slack is a software-as-a-service chat application:

https://slack.com

Meteor is a javascript app building platform:

https://www.meteor.com

+1

Lots of enterprise companies demand full control over all things. Its not uncommon at all.

It loads now. However, can't login as it demands an email. For something like a demo, this seems a little overkill.

For something I might host for my employees or people I intend on collaborating with I guess it makes sense.

Does the demo work for anyone? Would like to check it out, but does not load, just hangs.

No, this website, combined with the fonts, makes it look very out of place, and just awkward.

Agreed. more and more jobs are being automated and going away. Both in big ways and smaller ones. Heck sometimes as a programmer I have bad feelings about making things more efficient for humans, thereby requiring less of them. In my career there has many projects that fit that description.

This is a complex idea, not without a large amount of challenges.

However as a citizen and programmer, I would rather see more things being automated, and instead of more unemployment, people could either not work, or find work they are more passionate about.

Just imagine if everyone that decided they want to not sit around all day, actually was working on something they were passionate about.

Yeah, so true.

Just had to retire a server a couple weeks ago, because of a new vulnerability discovered in its IPMI firmware.

It's a bummer, because if your support contract runs out, sometimes you have to pay to upgrade, which leaves you in a bind. In my case it made more sense to just replace this one server.

But, ultimately I guess my point is that even if IPMI is patchable, there is another hurdle, you can't as easily maintain it yourself as you can a linux host.

Cool, keep hacking away. Bookmarked.

Cool efforts so far. I can see the use case for wanting to find information across multiple sites.

Couple feedback points.

1 - the ui in your screenshot on the home page (https://recalll.co/theme/flat/img/search.png), in the results section you have the title as blue. At least in safari, in real life its black. This makes the results all run together and visually be hard to quickly tell where one result ends and the next begins.

2 - if I was to use it for actual work, the search "nsfetchedresultscontroller duplicates" would be something that I have searched for recently. unfortunately nothing really useful came up on this recalll.co. Maybe a good example to test against google, stack overflow, and quora.

3 - not sure if the types of queries I want to put in to search asana or evernote, would be the same types of queries I would want to search the web / blogs / stack overflow. I suppose maybe the use case is, just use recall, and we'll figure it out. But sometimes I may want to search for something silly like "s3 credentials from bob", which might producer weird results in stack overflow for example, because there is probably lot of people talking about s3 credentials, but its completely out of context, and I would want the results from evernote or something. (whether evernote is a good place to store those of course is probably another discussion, but to illustrate the point)

4 - some people won't install chrome extensions. if I try to search right from your homepage, the animated help thing starts to overwrite my input. whatever I'm searching, if its not already open, I want to open it quickly, and execute the search immediately.

Great work though. The concept is cool. Maybe you could end up like duckduckgo, for programmers.

Curious, is the:

  SELECT DISTINCT(email) FROM parent;

The actual query you run in production, or similar enough? That could be a very expensive query with a very large amount of rows, even if indexed. (Large, being in the multi millions, depending on hardware). Might make more sense to run something like that on a reporting slave.

Which is most of them that have enough traffic/data to need this tool in the first place. MySQL generally tends to perform badly at massive scale with foreign keys. (i.e., when your doing 30k queries/second)