stuffedBelly

> You're just wasting time and space with your insults and rhetoric

I engage in arguments but where do you see insults?

I know very well you can read comments and profiles. I've had an HN account since 2011 and it gave me enough time to become well versed in finance. Plus I call myself software engineer because I work in quantitative finance and software engineering is big part of it. I'm also a CFA charterholder and not putting it on my HN profile doesn't make me less versed in finance.

It's ok if you don't want to engage in arguments, but don't assume you know someone by simply skimming through their HN profiles.

You can prove me wrong by actually arguing/answering the questions I had but instead you fell into Tu quoque...don't think this is how a healthy argument should be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

> someone who develops software and pretends to be some sort of financial expert

Your assumption is baseless and does not help your argument. Commenting on HN does not mean someone develops software for a living. HN is open for everyone.

I work in finance and am sorry but you don't sound like a legit investor if you measure the effectiveness of your capital towards startups by work hours. What about their revenue models, plans for growth, talent structure and market niche? Why do you expect them to work longer hours as long as they have deliverables on time? Also, working longer hours may introduce potential compliance/HR costs (mental/physical problems due to overwork, people leaving due to work-life balance issue), which could be deadly for early startups.

> I'm sure that they do in the overwhelming majority of successful startups

You would need to back up this statement with evidence and show positive correlation between longer work hours and success of startups.

Nope, this is not true (from someone I know who's working at Bloomberg).

The keyword is "voluntary". Alibaba doesn't have this problem but many other companies do. The fact anti-996 has gained tons of attention makes me doubt it's just an immature movement started by a couple of crybabies.

I actually read Jack Ma's initial memo on this matter in Chinese. His stance was pretty clear that he endorses 996. He later "clarified" that he disagrees with this sentiment after people became enraged by his words.

These two assumptions don't really contribute to the whole 996 discussion.

Plus for many people, at certain stage, family/relationship/life/health becomes much more important than making millions.

corrected. Thanks.

Jack Ma's comment on this matter is full of logical fallacy. Forcing employees to stick to the 996 schedule with no overtime pay is not equivalent to someone finding their own passion and work restless towards their own goal. He somehow mixed up these two completely different things while avoided talking about the lack of overtime pay or even basic respect for employees in many corporations.

Labeling people who demand reasonable work-life balance as "slackers" (from JD's CEO) or lazy is utterly disgusting.

I understand sometimes people might need to work a bit overtime to get things done or have on-call duties. We all do, but working 12 hours a day/6 days a week is not sustainable whatsoever. Of all these Chinese entrepreneurs, none of them mentioned even the slightest of their total rewards systems, which makes me think they are avoiding this topic on purpose and all their comments are attempts to put out fire while keeping the status quo, sneaky indeed.

To be honest, if someone I manage constantly works crazy hours with no rest for a long period of time, voluntarily or not, I won't even let him/her push any piece of code to production.

Fried brains == Disaster

Edit: had a discussion with some of my friends from China on this. One of the common arguments is "why are developers whining about work conditions while tons of other occupations such as factory/delivery workers and nurses work long hours with lower pay?"

First of all, other occupations having bad work condition does not justify the legitimacy of 996. This is yet another common logical fallacy when it comes to arguments like this. Also, how can people assume workers of other occupations are fine with endless long hours? Did anyone consider the possibility that they never had a systematic way to express their dissatisfaction and just tried going along with it for as long as possible before they were burnt out and got replaced?

downvote all you want...

thanks for sharing. My own "prestigious" alma mater has been involved in the scandal and I'm really worried the kind of message it sends to younger generations...that money can move mountains and hard-work does not matter...

Google's profit is driven primarily by ads. The old web is no longer the primary target for Google. Companies like this should probably stop pretending they are non-profit charity or labeling themselves as enablers of a 'better world'. At least this way people would have more realistic expectation, but hey, why should a mega-corp care what people really want...

A step in the right direction but hope universities could undo some damage by admitting students who were previously rejected/waitlisted because they were not "qualified" (ironically). Systematic cheating has always been there as long as there is profit involved, but I am still extremely sad that it got its way into all these so-called prestigious institutes...

long hours != work hard

so sad people in that forum even don't realize it and are so proud of their so-called "hard work" while getting exploited by their employers.

I work in finance and all I can say is it's not sustainable and not definitely something anyone should be proud of. Literally no one benefits from such long work hour, not even the company itself.

This reminds me of a defcon talk by Chris Rock about how to overthrow a government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1lhGqNCZlA

It is indeed growing as a high-performance computation-focused language, but not to the scale of Python yet.

In quant finance space, Python has been gradually taking over matlab/sas for signal/model implementation.

I've used Qt developing various data-heavy apps for financial research at work and agree that making this comparison is rather inappropriate. For people who are not familiar with JSX this is not any better than the Qt syntax. This would be an alternative to Qt, but before I see a full-fledging app developed with great performance/memory metrics using this, I am not convinced enough to put it in my framework stack.

I have a Daydream VR headset from Google and these two are a lot like design-wise. Competition on comfort design could be a good thing in my opinion.

ha, this reminds me of once I left my badge at home and snuck into my office from the mailroom entrance instead of the actual front-door entrance with badge scanners and security guards.

You are making assumptions. How do you know what powers or will power the surveillance system in China? Also, mass surveillance will always be there regardless of forms of energy it is on, hence the weak correlation.

I am all for witty sarcasm, but this one doesn't add much value to the discussion given weak correlation between mass surveillance and renewable energy.

This is a bit far-fetched. Not everything China does is for mass surveillance...this could simply be the Chinese government had a taste of how bad Beijing's air quality is and decided to push harder towards renewable energy.

There is going to be repercussion. The Chinese government starts to treat Christianity as a cult like Falun Gong, to which it used the same tactic. But unlike Falun Gong, which is more of a home-brew quasi religion from the 90s, Christianity and missionary activities have been intrinsically rooted in major cities like Nanjing and Shanghai, especially during the wartime.

This also sends a danger sign to the Uyghur area, which is Muslim dominated, making Uyghurs worry that Muslim might be the next religion to crack down. If the Chinese government wants stability and total control of its people, this is not the way to do it. And unlike two decades ago, there are now hundreds of ways to uprise and much harder to crack down.

How to retaliate against someone you dislike while they are applying to travel/study in the US? Launch a smear campaign against him/her on social media. Super effective.

i like your sarcasm :D.

I'd say the company might still be there but pivoting of core business will likely happen. Lots of companies survive this way, especially when they cover multiple business fields.

keep in mind that 57% does not mean 57% are on H1B. This dataset does not show the percentage of permanent residents.

> I think at some level the barrier needs to be higher for out-of-towners wanting to move to a new place so that the city does not become unlivable for the people that have lived there their whole life or generations

There is such system for cities in China (Hu Kou) and it's a nightmare.