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We should play this up more on our site, but Ninite (I'm a co-founder and we're YC W08) does this stuff right.

All our .exes are signed, app config information comes over https, and downloads are all checked for hashes that match our testing before being automated. We're not just naively adding silent switches either, we'll automate clicks to get through less well-behaved installers when needed.

Why can you trust Ninite? Money. Thousands of businesses pay us for Ninite Pro and the free version is our marketing department. We're extremely careful to make sure our updates come out on time and junk free.

That's so nice to hear. Thank you!

I'd love to make a Mac version someday, but the problems are so much worse on Windows so we're focusing there.

PortableApps is great!

Ninite Co-Founder here.

Our pro-version SAAS business model works great.

Plus we started Ninite because junkware enraged us so much. It's just punching down at non-technical users. I'd kill the company before doing that.

Anyway, we'll be around and junkware free until the world moves to platforms where everything's signed and sandboxed.

That's right, we did no redistribution or modification of their software. Ninite just automates things you would do.

But, publishers can license their software under whatever terms they want. They could forbid this sort of automation in the license, or even forbid Ninite specifically by name. As far as we can tell there's no right to automate your own machine that prohibitions like that would be violating.

I think the only defense here is public backlash (thanks everyone!) and/or boycott.

Sorry for the confusion. That copy is about things like Filehippo Updater, not built-in updaters. The aggregation and automation arguments still apply, but it's not intended as a jab at them.

I'm still confused at how making money destroys our credibility. It's a good thing for the people you trust with software updates to be profitable. Pro users paying us for extra features like remote mode lets us offer Ninite free for everyone else.

We don't even run ads on the free site because Pro users pay the bills and we love that we can save people from wasting time clicking Next Next Next.

First I want to say thanks! We love your work at PortableApps.com and send people there whenever they ask us to add portable software.

Our value is keeping the catalog up-to-date and putting a nice interface around the updating process. Not ad-blocking.

We actively uncheck toolbars for maybe 5 apps. If those apps removed their toolbar offers people would still use Ninite to track updates and automate work.

On profits XOR good: We do make money, but we also work really hard to do good as in http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html

Our website is completely free (and ad-free) for home users. We save people from about 15 minutes of mindless installer work every second.

Our $9.99 home Updater product is just something to point home users at when they ask to donate to us. We're a company. We don't take donations.

We also run http://ninite.com/accessible to help visually-impaired people manage software. Actually, until last summer that was about the only way for people to install Flash with a screenreader http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2012/07/flash-player-in...

If publishers want to make updating their software artificially hard there's not a lot we can do except trust that people will see what's going on and move to other products.

We're good guys, it's OK. :)

Seriously though, we'd lose all our Ninite Pro customers if we pulled any crap with our installations. Since the free version is our marketing department we'd be idiots to mess that up too.

If you're talking about those pop-ups users get on new versions our Pro version can turn those off: http://ninite.com/help/features/disableautoupdate.html

Glad to hear you like it. We think about configuration stuff like this from time to time, but I'm pretty sure getting all the details right would take years. So we haven't made the leap yet.

We don't modify the apps. We run the installers in a hidden window and simulate the clicks to install them without toolbars.

Thanks for using Ninite!

Apps are downloaded from the publishers. We validate files with SHA-1 hashes and digital signatures (where available) before using them.

I needed to post this here because we solve the problem in the article.

The problem is deceptive software. That we're funded by YC (or that InstallMonetizer is) is a red herring. But it sure does get some clicks!

On a perfect version of HN the top comments would be about solving the problems in posts, not elaborating on them.

Not to dump on HN though. This is a bug in human nature.

Glad to hear you like Ninite and that we saved you time, thanks for using it!

Wow! Defaulting the easy revert option to unchecked is the perfect kicker. It's like a cartoon villain curling his mustache.

The wording on that choice is incredible too.

Good point. The relative openness of win32 allows junkware but gives us enough slack to fight it too.

It does make for a noisier and more confusing ecosystem though. My mom's still better off using an iPad.

Thanks for using Ninite Pro!

Thanks! Edited (hopefully) for clarity.

Y Combinator also funded our solution to crapware.

http://ninite.com

Basically we automate multiple installers and decline toolbars just like you would.

Users range from the nontechnical to NASA. We even have a huge blind user base because these installers are frequently hell to navigate with a screenreader.

We make money selling a Pro version with extra features to businesses and school IT departments. It works well and aligns us nicely with our users' interests.

Remove the text-rendering: optimizelegibility; line from your CSS and that text will render properly again.

We ran into this on Windows Chrome too. It was a pain to track down.

Glad to hear you like it. An agent option is something we're thinking about. Right now some people solve this by having a startup script that runs something like: Ninite.exe /silent c:\ninite\report.txt /updateonly /allusers

But an agent would allow us to build some neat management tools too...

I'll keep an eye on this thread to answer any questions too. Thanks!

This is really smart.

Those years of updates and photos on the timeline are data that only Facebook has. It's a unique asset and they're putting it front and center.

If people like the timeline a lot it will be an enormous barrier to entry for competing social networks.

Thanks for the feedback. The lighter designs we've been using lately are much more readable (they've pretty much eliminated common questions about things we already say on the homepage). That block of logos is just temporary, we just put the current design up a week ago and haven't had much time to iterate on it yet.

We used to be Volery at getvolery.com but pg advised us to change that since Dropbox had such a hard time eventually getting dropbox.com.

Sure, I'm pat@ninite.com

We could probably use more SEO, but we're actively fighting that once in a blue moon use reputation.

We're working to position Ninite as a great general download site and our new Ninite updater should help repeat use. Even with a single app, clicking next next next through an installer is silly. Our paid users end up using Ninite daily at their work already.

A big issue with SEO for us is that normal users don't even imagine that what Ninite does is possible. I think some mix of education and oblique SEO could help, but I think the newness of what we do complicates things a lot.

We aren't hurting for traffic, but it's primarily word of mouth and press so far.

These are nice ideas, thanks for the feedback. The chemical element angle is one I definitely thought about when we first looked at the name.

We operate under the assumption that our customers don't want to be "engaged" or talked to.

People use Ninite to get apps installed quickly and without any hassle.

That's it.

They don't use it because they need a new friend, or want to be marketed to, or don't get enough email, or want to see some ads, or want to create another account somewhere on the internet. So we don't have any of that.

Our pages/visit in Google Analytics is 2.00. The main page then the installer download page. We've got other pages, but they are literally a rounding error.

I bet we'd be exactly as successful with a better name. Are there examples of products where an awesome name made them into successes? Or even had a significant impact?

I'm sure you could tank a product with an offensive name or something that required weird unicode characters. But I think it's only worth getting a passing grade on the name and then going for an A+ on the product.

I guess the argument is that if you're right on the margin a better name could tip you into winning. But I'd already consider a product a failure if it only gets to that middle ground on its own. If the name makes a difference I'd say you're not working on the right sort of problem.

Thanks, this is a really great compliment.

One of my favorite things about Ninite is that we get thank you letters from grandmothers who hear about us on the local news and orders from Fortune 500 companies for the same basic product.