theblackbox

the idea of using a distributed grid of agents to create sense data about our planets inner workings doesn't excite anyone on HN?

Children of Men is actually a novel by P.D. James

Just a pet peev when people overlook the original material, but I was pretty surprised to learn this. She mostly writes detective stories and was inducted into the crime writers hall of fame.

It's on my "todo" bookshelf, anyway, so any pomposoty is accidental ;)

Found this really interesting, although I was never really in much doubt at the "intelligence" of these increadible animals. Wendroid is right to point out the magpie example of self awareness, although I would like to know the relative brain mass index of these birds. I have heard of very similar things with that whole family, with Miner birds being notorious for having mastered a small vocabulary.

Had a quick look around for some info on this topic and came accros a great resource : http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geopedia/Animal_Minds

I was looking for the study conducted on elephants (Payne, Katherine. National Geographic: "Elephant Talk." National Geographic: USA. August 1989) where they studied the infrasound communications of wild elephant herds. This one always struck me as significant, because it whispers to us of a vast and efficient network that would have spanned large areas of the African continent. I always thought of it like whale song, although being propogated through a denser medium it would travel faster and further (?). So maybe at some point during their ancient past, the elephant herds were in constant communication, following signs of water and congregating on grazing grounds and to mate/socialise.... I think this (like the dolphin superpods that have only recently been described in any great detail) shows of a formidable intelligence.

I'm still not sure, there are a host of available testing sites and places one can go to get this level of info to leverage your ISP. Making a one stop shop that actually tells you what ISP your "neighbour" is using, just seems superflous.

To me it just seems like another chink in the everyday users armour, something that can be used to detirmine more precisely what households are vulnerable. It isn't difficult to find ISP specific default passwords and so on for routers and it wouldn't be difficult for a determined individual to utilise this "consumer watchdog" service for the wrong purposes.

I just couldn't see this being particularly useful for anyone except identity fraudsters and various elements on the underbelly of society. If the ISP has LIED to you about the available speed, then surely this is a matter for legal recourse... not some fluffy web 2.0 (ohhh) db that opens everyones isp up to postcode searches.

Dunno, I may just be naively underestimating the market for such a product or paranoid about my information, but this just seems pointless at best and irresponsible at worst.

Ha, I used to theorise exactly this as a thought experiment years ago.... wonder if that means the target market for New Scientist is now sixteen year old geeks trying to impress the adopted maternal figures their maths and physics teachers have become

I saw this story/fluff and didn't even think it was worthy of bbc, but they have been grasping at straws lately!

It amounts to: "OMG! Tim speekz!"

I would Second ANYTHING by Hesse, not got round to a thorough read of Siddhartha yet, but Damien is most excellent and The Glass Bead Games is a revelation for anyone who feels there is something just a little bit ill with the mind and motion of our modern age.

Oh, and something along the lines of The Neverending Story (The Silmarillion/LotR), because it's something to lose yourself in with kids and doesn't even have to be read.

I gave a talk at LugRadio 2008 about AI and Liquid State Machines and what was supposed to be a lightning talk turned into an hour long open debate with the audience about the many forms of "Intelligence" apparent in digital systems, and what exactly could be construed as "alive".... this feature/bug was one of the most interesting that someone raised, as it has the capacity to mutate as the information that is sent over wireless could corrupt. The way it was explained was that one box serving a "Free Public WiFi" prompts other boxes to connect as an ad-hoc network, the original box goes down, leaving any that connected as servers. But in broadcasting the status and info of the network, it would be possible to corrupt the information, essentially mutating what some original server set up as a "Free Public WiFi" network to a "Free Pubic WiFi" or something. The idea being that the thing is mutable, mobile and seeks it's own preservation if only in a very limited fashion.... I was intrigued, but I can't vouch for the accuracy of my understanding.

I've always gone for the prescription that Faith and Religion are two separate but entwined beasts. Faith is the emotion that is shaped and controlled by the political/social/cultural construct of Religion. I find it insulting that this is so often disregarded by learned speakers such as Richard Dawkins.

I'm looking forward to giving this a thorough read, I always loved DA and his method of communicating some deeply philosophical and scientific ideas with the right amount of scepticism and curiosity to make something uniquely human of it. As Boris Pasternak would say, DA incorporates his knowledge in Myth - a master storyteller.

here in the UK the government has pledged to getting 50% of school leavers through University Education.... average student debt is now ~£23K .... Ka-Ching!

This was the standard method of "copywriting" Maps - put in an artificial or geological feature that isn't there. You know who's been stealing your data then - The "There be Dragons" hack

Utilitarianism is a failed foundation for Ethics, as far as I am informed, as it relies on an infinite regress to find the initial act for instance (thus defining the "greater good"), or omniscience in order to be aware of all possible outcomes... thus knowing the greater good from some priveleged position

EDIT: yes this may seem like an egotistical way of looking at it, but I'm trying to shirk the details and keep the feeling - even if that is mostly that I'm an opinionated dick... you may disagree, but that's the thing with opinions

I don't disagree, it was a cold and calculated assessment of ethics, which, to be honest, I don't have a lot of time for in discussion. I find it much better for one to state outright what they abhor or condone and we can frame a discussion about something worthwhile from there. It's not a calous attitude but a sweeping attempt to discuss the finer points rather than the elephant in the room.

triedness kills

I do think that this is indeed closer to the pointy end of the stick when it comes to the ethical concerns of medical research, both for the trials involved and the implications of the technology. The first I am more than willing to pay - I have no concern for the lives of laboratory test organisms and take a staunchly Utilitarian approach, justified by my privileged knowledge of the "greater good". The second, I am wary of becoming over invested in as humanities credit rating sucks in that department =S

Hmmm... would have expected a discussion about the motivations for such a change, as I see it this is just cult worship (coupled with groupthink down-modding for even voicing an alternative opinion).... I expect more from this community (cue baseless down-modding)

Am I the only one who doesn't worship at the feet of the all mighty Oracle?

I gave up noticing changes on google years ago when they went through a particularly dense spate of "Google" image mods for everything from International Talk-Like-a-Pirate-Day to World AIDS Day (my Birthday! - probably explains the bitterness)....

> Just thought I had to defend my comments as something more than simply a "ohhh, terrorist'll get ya" pokey stick.

Ha, I think we're broadly in agreemant but I'm tending toward pessimism, the above is a reference to Alex Jones which I guess helps qualify that!! Was just alluding to the fact I wasn't trying to doomsay and polarise the argument but articulate a genuine concern that there exists far to much potential in a free (a.i.s) drugs trade for corruption and misuse of power. It is not a trade I would like to see legal for fear of a smarmy spin covered consumerism. I manage nicely as it is, but decriminalisation I think is a far better option than legalisation. Speaking conservatively and pessimistically.

I think my point is often overlooked. I'm not denying that there exists sustainable economic models for the "legal drugs trade", such as tobacco and alcohol, nor am I forgetting this in my hyperbolic critique of the legalisation of the "illicit drugs trade". What I'm saying is simply a matter of scale. Look at the illicit drugs trade as it currently stands, valued at billions if not trillions of monies, dispite the effect of very agressive lobbying on behalf of the worlds governments, police and military institutions. If this pressure were to let up, even in only a few of these countries, this would surely cause an economic vacuum that would be for all intents and purposes like a gold rush(?). What I'm saying is that there effectively exists a non-partisan international agreement to actively surpress the emergence of the free (as in speech) drugs trade. Coffee is already the second largest comodity in the world, it's not that far a stretch of the imagination to picture Meth or Cocaine supplanting the humble bean as our stimulant of choice were they to be part of a legal industry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of the rhetorical/polemic structure of this argument, as well as the simple age of it, I'm just chipping in with what I've considered. I myself have a very liberal approach to drugs, my use of certain drugs (which is moderate even for alcohol) and I have a family involved in Iraq/AfPaq, figured this thread was well suited to my two cents. Just thought I had to defend my comments as something more than simply a "ohhh, terrorist'll get ya" pokey stick.

Just found some interesting stuff about the decriminalisation of illicit drugs in Portugal in 2001, seems to be doing them a great deal of good. But there was mention that NO country has ever rationally considered legalisation as this would open up an economy and a power hierarchy the likes of which the world has never seen (hyperbole, yes, but I think we could all imagine the darker side of a legal drugs industry. Off the top of my head, the vast sums of money that can be made would cause a global gold rush where "Prospectors" vs. "Indyuns" would be woefully unbalanced. The "Indyuns" are already there, have assets invested, have militias and are less than ethical business people... bad medicine.)

This (subsidised legal crop production) was suggested by Columbia in the eighties as a way to curb cocaine exports, the response: We don't make deals with Terrorists...

So it's just a quirk of a hacker's mind that puzzle solving (and possibly peer admiration) is addictive? My reasoning being that we all KNOW that it is not good for ones health, but those that can access flow/"the zone" do so to burn bright and die young? I'm also thinking of performers there...

sorry if I'm rambling, but I find this a very interesting topic... not just because I indulge in this, but because it's becoming more and more common and I can only see it as self destructive. What good is a creative outlet that forces you into burnout? Why does the hacker mindset look for ways to cheat around the obviously unsustainable lifestyle? Is it pride? being a perfectionist? simple delusion that the system is geared to reward those that over-invest their energy?

I can see myself falling off a damn rocky road any day now, and it's got me thinking: why was it that I couldn't get to the same place using an easier route? Money? is that it, does it all boil down to simple investment? most hackers aren't backed by anything more than their determination and a vision that simply must be realised .... but that's Obsession!?

/me stops having a mini-breakdown

okay so to take this further, what motivations are there for breaking the "natural sleep rhythm" that are prevalent in the world of creative entrepreneurs (hackers) but not so in the "rest of the world"

You gave the exact answer I was expecting, but I'm not convinced this suffices. It /IS/ an obsession... my late night coffee binges are the stuff of legend (mostly because I rely entirely on natural stimulants when my other friends take more unorthodox steps to maintain.... "consciousness")... but WHY is this so? My stimulated friends are there for the simple pleasure of being wrecked on particular drugs, does the brain of a hacker/creative entrepreneur expect a similar payout? you mentioned being motivated by money... so by breaking (or taming?) the natural rhythms of sleep, does one invest some abstract personal commodity in the hope of future security? What could motivate this?

[ASIDE: notice that I'm trying to _START A DISCUSSION_.... voters/recent posters would do well to take that into consideration as for some reason it has been overlooked of late]

Why does this community have a minor obsession with sleep? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

Seems a little overly pretentious, but also got some good resources on there.

This seems the eternal problem for anyone wanting to break the ice and get onto the hacker wagon. I've been isolated for years trying to build up my hacker credentials, until I eventually gave up. What coding I could learn was taken from books, hacked around shoddy equipment and bounced off the wall for a few weeks, before finally getting some feedback from irc or various forums. The problem was never having a mentor, someone who could say "you know what, you suck at C, why not try something with a more robust framework" or "you're right struts is a piece of shit, but industry like these things".... unfortunately I've found that this type of thing is less than forth coming. I thought I would have found something at uni, but I didn't have the time to take part in what little I could find, so focused on things I could get support for. Now, I've returned to me hometown and isolation is very much more oppressive than I remember and I'm a little ashamed of not making more from the opportunities afforded in the city.

I don't know what to say, I love online learning, and really try to make the most of open source communities and irc, but I've always found it a bit... "Glass Bead Games"?

I don't doubt he is heading the way of the Intelligence "fusion" centers[1] and some form of interrogation. This is an absolute shambles and shows just how inept and yellow the UK home office are. Not only are they going to hand this guy over in blatant disregard to his Human rights, they are refusing to publicise documents surrounding the Iraq war investigation - mostly due to very subtle pressure levied by US military in regard to "intelligence sharing" (same thing used in this G.M. case). And as a final insult they /demand/ that the UK population bend over and take it when it comes to the National ID scheme, which has been proven time and again to be totally against public consensus....

[1] http://wikileaks.org/wiki/The_spy_who_billed_me_twice

True. I remember reading about the pressure being put on BBC's commercial arm by the British press due to the vast sums of money it can rake in. The problem being that license payers have paid for this, and so should be considered shareholders(?), and yet we get no choice in how BBC media is used commercially or how the fortunes are reinvested. Seems a shame that the BBC cowers in the background, perpetually outputting a standard quality product when in truth it has the opportunity to truly innovate. Dunno, maybe I'm just expecting too much from them, but I can't help but think that somewhere along the line, they missed a trick.

Yeah, I reckon it's a step in the right direction. But I have often thought about why the BBC hasn't embraced new media in an attempt to project the corporations aims onto a much higher plain. Their whole "bytesized" revision gumph was a heap of shite compared to what they could offer considering the vast amount of programme data they have available. Why this model is being restricted to previously broadcast news, is beyond me. The revenue that could be generated from selling high quality documentaries and other archived material (Reith Lectures, The Forum, BBC Proms, etc.) could be huge. Guess "Dave" is a case in point for this in terms of light entertainment, but I would prefer to see some more forward thinking initiatives (I've talked about my desire for BBC iPlayer to embrace torrents on HN before - share the load, localise data, distribute the cost of archiving and retrieving).