throw4failure

Interviews are (with varying degrees of efficacy) meant to gauge fundamentals - so I think you're presenting a bit of a false dichotomy.

That said I haven't really solicited advice on either. My concern is more specifically related to how to frame my past employment and medical issues for a future employer - not so much making it through a technical screening.

I was, and am, curious about what others deem important to their career and craft (e.g. fundamentals), but like I said it's mainly curiosity. If you have something to share I'm all ears, and if not I wish you well.

Thank you :)

What kind of approach would you suggest? Genuinely curious :)

My guess would be that many of the references you call do in fact work for companies with a no-reference policy. This has at least been the case at all of my employers (large and small places alike, some household names), save a 5 person startup.

In my experience, although near-ubiquitous a no-reference policy mostly seems to mean "if anyone calls the company line or shows up on prem, we redirect them to HR who then tells them nothing". It doesn't mean they go out of their way to stop individual employees from giving positive references on their own time (to wit I've never seen any employer actually make any effort whatsoever to disseminate their no-reference policy to employees, it's just a CYA measure they adopt if communication happens through channels they're directly accountable for)

Thanks :) - you are, in fact, pretty cool

> DO NOT MENTION, OR INSINUATE, YOU WERE FIRED. And don't lie.

It's unfortunate that openness is punished so harshly, but I get it. You're not the first person to caution strongly against letting anyone learn about the termination, so I'll try to move forward accordingly :)

> I try to avoid saying negative stuff about my last job

Definitely agree. It's one of those things that's more likely to harm than to help.

> herniated disc / sciatica

my sincere sympathies. I herniated some (cervical) discs a few years back, it's an extremely frustrating condition. In my case it's gotten better with time to the point I can do almost everything I could before, but I don't see myself getting back into MMA or other full contact sports.

Thanks for the reply and for offering a unique perspective :)

> Your prior employer isn't going to tell anyone, if they know what's good for them. Small, inexperienced companies with no lawyers might, but no real business is going to risk a lawsuit by saying anything bad about you whatsoever. They'll confirm that you worked there and that's about it.

This is an interesting point. I had been under the impression that even companies with fairly restrictive HR policies could safely disclose whether or not a former employee was terminated. After some fresh googling it seems I might have been incorrect and that now employers increasingly might just admit you existed :)

> Do not under any circumstances tell people that you were unemployed or lost your job due to depression or mental health. I'm not going to sugar coat this for you. Never admit this during an interview. It's a bad idea to mention anything health related. It's also none of their business, unless you require an accommodation that needs to be addressed before you're hired.

Sadly, I think you're very much correct re: mental health. I almost wish I could be more candid, but everyone (here and elsewhere) seems to agree that's just a terrible idea.

> It's a bad idea to mention anything health related.

I have, however, mentioned health / medical issues in some of my early conversations. I definitely understand how that could make potential employers nervous, so in some future interviews I may try to omit mentioning health at all.

> You'll be fine going forward, although now isn't a great time to be looking for a job, so it might take longer.

Thank you :)

Thanks for the answer :)

> If you have been fired from multiple resume-relevant jobs, then don't use the "I learned and won't repeat it" part. In a perfect world, the interviewer should know. Not because you're an immoral worker, but because it's a risk you and your employer would share.

Thankfully, although I think I've had depression for several years, I've left all other employers on good terms. For some reason things just spiraled heavily this last year, but long story short I don't have a pattern of termination.

> Finally, you "messed up" in the way that a dropped glass hits the floor: no point shaming the glass. Be proud of seeking treatment, but remember there was also luck in that decision. Our ideas of choice and responsibility are more complicated than usual when psychological disorders get mixed in.

There definitely was. If it hadn't been for my family and friends I would have avoided treatment much longer than I did, in addition to probably getting deep into substances. We're all products of circumstance and luck to varying degrees, and I've - all things considered - been very, very lucky.

This isn't uncommon, and as I understand it follows directly from the typical HR policy of only confirming the essentials, such as title, dates of employment and reason for leaving. Companies care more about possible litigation than they do about helping you with your next job.

However, in my experience it's haphazardly enforced. If you're on good terms with a colleague or manager, it's my understanding (IANAL) that they can still provide an informal or personal reference. In practice, for most prospective employers this is just as good as a formal reference (since most companies these days have the aforementioned policy anyways).

Thank you kindly for the extensive answer.

> You don't need to -- and shouldn't -- go into specifics about the medical side, but you certainly can talk about things you've learned to keep yourself engaged and focused at work.

This is very helpful. You touched on something I've been conflicted about, namely how to navigate being open about my situation without being open about the specifics of my medical condition (I'm not averse to it, but from my research online it's my understanding that sharing the nitty gritty details doesn't help either party partly due to potential legal issues).

> I've hired people who've been fired, with longer gaps than yours. You can recover from this.

This is very reassuring to hear :)

I'm expecting more than a few negative responses from employers, just like I would in good times, but my mind has also been drifting to worst case scenarios where literally nobody is willing to hire me for development again, so it's good to hear that there's still hope :)

I appreciate the feedback, thank you. In particular, reminding me to contribute to a larger open source project which is something I haven't done since leaving my last job.

This seems like a good thread in which to try to solicit some advice, since it's at least tangentially related.

I was terminated from my last job. In my opinion it was due to my chronic and major depression that I have since been seeking extensive treatment (medication, several months rent in therapy) for. I say "in my opinion" because I really can't rule out that I'm just a lazy, crappy developer who is trying to use mental health as an excuse.

Either way, I've been unemployed for over half a year and am now trying to re-enter the job market. Obviously the gap is a bit of a red flag that I've been candid about to potential employers, in the sense that I speak about a medical issue, not the specifics.

If I could go back in time, I would have quit from my last job before being fired, but honestly I was beyond caring about anything, period, so the consequences of taking the career L barely phased me. There was no upside to being fired, I just didn't care.

Now, I wish I had cared, because it's an elephant in the room I don't really know how to address. Do I tackle it proactively by outright telling everyone I was canned? Do I wait until they call up my former employer to verify my work history?

If anyone else has been in a remotely similar situation I would greatly appreciate any tips or feedback. Please just refrain from telling me I messed up - I definitely know I did.