Comment by FilterJoe | Hacker News Reader

Comment by FilterJoe | Hacker News Reader

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rkalla's comment about the "negative carpet-bomb style" that this article follows got me thinking: The story focuses on something that seems ridiculous when taken out of context - and no doubt reminded many HN readers of various childhood memories (including me). But it brings up the following question:

What is the best way to go about teaching children of greatly varying abilities/talents/developmental speeds? If you put 2 or 3 really smart and talkative "bullshit-detecting" kids in a class of 25 other regular kids, will all their BS detecting help or harm education of the other 25 kids? If teachers end up allocating a large portion of class time to the 2 or 3 smart kids, wouldn't this detract from teaching the other 25? (And I have to say, I'm at the moment thinking back with embarrassment at the number of times I pointed out exceptions that rendered a teacher's assertion incorrect - was this a good use of classroom time taken as a whole?).

In reality, public schools teach to the middle. It could be that most kids aren't ready to learn independent thinking skills before age 15 or so, and that trying to encourage this is just a waste of time. Or perhaps it could be taught to all at an early age. I don't know, but it's an interesting question.

In my mind, there's an obvious solution which is to some extent already done. Segregate the bright, BS-detecting kids into classes more appropriate for them. Encourage them to continue along their path of independent thinking and accelerated learning without disrupting the education of those in the middle.

I will join your gentle threadjack, because it runs along an interesting tangent.

I think a lot of schools give lip-service to segregating "advanced" students but miss the point of the exercise. I was placed in an accelerated maths class at school. The school determined which students were ready to learn more advanced mathematical concepts by test grades.

Long story short, the class was generally filled with unquestioning swots who could complete hundreds of worked examples according to the textbook but had no critical analasis skills whatsoever.

When the "advanced" class is seen as a bonus option available for successful students, unfortunately teachers aren't inclined reward the BS-detecting students, who have questioned their authoritah too many times.

Good point. One way to address your point is to try to understand what is appropriate for each kid at the age of 5-6 and slot them in the right school before it's too late. See my reply below.

I want to get on a tangent inspired from your comment. Myself included, many Hacker News readers would probably be in the BS-detecting, questioning, critical category of students. However, I personally really think that every school child can become great at something, regardless of whether they are the little questioners in the classroom or not. And I personally think that an education system that labels children into "regular" and "advanced" is not a good idea, because it really hurts the self-esteem of the "regular" students.

My point is: different flavors, different emphasis, different difficulty in homework among the essentially same-subject classes is fine. However, we should phrase education as an experience with choices, especially for pre-college (because their personalities are very malleable, imo), instead of making kids feel like they are laggards.

I see your point. But segregation can also occur by entire schools. In CA (where I live), budget constrains and therefore class sizes makes it very difficult for public schools to cater to the individual needs of students. For this reason, our son is going to a private school (partly an economic decision for us - the cost of a house in a town with great public schools was $500,000-$600,000 greater than the house we actually purchased).

We checked out many public and private schools to find the best fit for him. Given the kinds of math he was doing before entering Kindergarten and his inquisitive nature, we could see that he would be bored and not challenged going through any of the public schools we checked out. His private school does a great job of exactly what you say - different flavors, different emphasis, different difficultly in homework among essentially same-subject classes.

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