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Comment by RheingoldRiver | Hacker News Reader

Really? IMO that's the sign of an extremely poorly designed tool that a lot of users have learned to use very well despite how poorly it's designed.

A tool that's designed well should have its actions all extremely intuitive, in which case one would not forget things in this manner because all of the actions would be derivable from their justifications. For example: ctrl+C is copy, and ctrl+V is the key right next to it for paste, making that not just muscle memory but also extremely easy to remember and even easier to explain: "press the the key to the right of C for paste".

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> ctrl+C is copy, and ctrl+V is the key right next to it for paste

That works in English on a QWERTY keyboard. Maybe not in other languages, and while it can be explained, it doesn't necessarily help to recall. I remember my father coming up with mnemonics to remember Ctrl-V.

Consider a tool where its user performs actions with such speed and intent that they occur at a layer of thought that OP had to slow down and think about what they were actually doing to explain to an outside observer. How is that not peak intuitive design?

While I agree this is the ideal, it's often hard to be newcomer-friendly while keeping a stable interface (absolutely needed to build a muscle memory). You can reduce the feature set, but then it doesn't work for power users.

An example of this is that new users often expect conventions they're used to; and both vim and emacs predate a lot of these, like Ctrl-S for saving.

Muscle memory can also be a sign for poorly designed software, where simple actions require a lot of repetitive steps. At least, it's easy to go fast with a keyboard. As an example, I learned by heart some sub-sub-menu items in Cadence, accessed by Alt+x,y,z (I'm thankful for these underlined letters in toolbars).

No, a tool can be designed well and still require training. It’s not the tool’s job to teach the user how to use it.

> For example: ctrl+C is copy, and ctrl+V is the key right next to it for paste, making that not just muscle memory but also extremely easy to remember and even easier to explain: "press the the key to the right of C for paste".

This is a terrible example. Why is it ctrl? Why is it to the right instead of the left?

Pass grandma test with that then we’ll talk, after you close that print dialog. You’re as grown used to this “easy to remember” as any Vim user or a truck driver.

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