openthc

I've heard the kids call that cross-faded now.

Since our struggles (starting in 2016) for this ; feature sets on mobile browsers have improved -- and we've learned more too -- we've mostly dropped "App" type support and have it 99% Bowser based. The only thing we're not able to get now -- but also no longer NEED -- is tight integration with Bluetooth IR/NFC/RFID type scanners ( the Socket Mobile is very popular in our universe -- https://store.socketmobile.com/products/durascan-d750-univer... )

As for Android -- Google is also Cannabis hostile but side-loading onto Android is a breeze (by comparison to iOS)

I don't think you get it; I'll try again.

  - Our app was for business regulatory compliance obligation.
  - Our clients asked for us to get into the App store (customers love that shit for some reason)
  - The process sucked for us.

I seems like you think we had a regulatory compliance obligation to be in the App store -- we did not; and do not. I only got into this thread because dealing with Apple sucks -- and sucked for us especially hard.

Nothing requires us to publish an app -- but when you make LOB software, the user-base is like "where's the App?" -- so you build one. It's not a strict, absolute requirement -- it's a de-facto requirement (like passing to the left)

Hmm, ages ago we added a cannabis related app on Apple/iOS -- and there were loads of other (small-ish) already on there -- to help grow, or find (to buy) or to review cannabis products.

Ours was for regualtory compliance -- a legal obligation for cannabis businesses. REJECTED! And after a 6mo appeal/review process -- with moving goal-posts -- we were allowed back in. YAY.

And then they started getting into the application and making demands -- one was to use their payment systems -- which was BS, because our clients get into the App, and use it most of the time outside of Apple devices (ie: Desktop in Browser). So another round, 3mo later and they'd not force the payment issue.

And the next review required us to remove any details about pricing from our application -- not our app pricing -- but the pricing for the inventory under management. So, users, in-app, couldn't see the regulatory compliance data: price of product sold; in the APP. But we pushed through! and finally got published in the App Store!! Yay!

And one month later we had to renew our Apple Developer -- cause this whole thing took 11 months of back/forth with Apple.

Then we got clients using it (finally!) and the clients were all grumpy cause the features were gone. Then another two more years with us trying to Apple trying to improve our App.

An last year, we just bailed on the App Store and have given up.

What's super frustrating is since we initially tried our process (starting in 2016) -- other cannabis apps, with pricing and online ordering and all this stuff that we were NOT allowed to do are in the store.

Exactly my point above -- oh, to fix this client issue I need a relaible system (Debian) -- but I can't run on their own hardware cause they like Windows (and turn machines off) -- so just spend $50-USD for the Pi, Power, SD and software and bing-bam-boom -- great success. Put a camera in their and now you've got a very smart security camera -- for such discount -- this commodity hardware is a game changing thing.

This is a fun trick. We use the PI as print-server for our POS -- cause it can also handle all kinds of crazy receipt printers -- for example, have to complile the filters and stuff for the Star TSC-100 series (and sometimes for Dymo, or obscure Brother label/receipt). But then the PI works to print from Apple, Android, Chromebook, Windows -- desktop, tablet, phoen -- like whatever hardware the store already has -- PI is super amazing for getting a reasonable system (ie: Debian) in a cheap way when the client already has a mixed variety pack of hardware. And we can VPN to the mothership (us) using Wireguard -- Thanks PI!! Thanks Jason!!

It's like having the phone numbers of different BBS to dial into back in the day. Except, the internet was always connected - which totally blew my mind!

Seeds are cheap (~$10 USD/ea), whole ready to harvest plants are not (and hard-ish to estimate). If you grow inside the expensive part is the electricity. Indoor and outdoor both spend lots on labour for harvest/cure/trim processes (variable cost, hourly). Expensive equipment are things like CO2 extractors $XXX,XXX USD. So yea, seeds cheap, loads of other higher cost items to get ~$10/g flower on the shelf at your favourite retailer

One of posts on the linked thread had that as a meme picture (page 2)

I've heard OpenTHC is pretty cool ;)

Yea, they hit us too (ages ago). How much effort do you want to spend? It took weeks to get contact, had a sit-down with their legal council on the line, re-did some underwriting process and -- were then told again "No".

My advice: start looking elsewhere and don't give it another thought.

Also, you may want to title this with an 'Ask HN:' prefix?

> structure is probably a good fit for the data model in your database

Um, actually we made some not optimial choices with our initial app-data schema and working with other vendors got us to this one. And also, yes, because we've used it for integration in a few places before, there is less work for us to currently do. We have also offered to help other providers wherein we would be spending our own cash-time for a mutual benefit.

I need about treefiddy

> "our OSS"

OUR as in the Royal OUR: my team + some small but visible external contributors + some external non-visible contributors + some businesses paying to improve the model + some sending direct email PRs. I'm not sure what other word to use to describe a fledgling community that I'm part of besides "our".

a) the independent org might take a longer time than we have; in Washington we need the answer by 31-Dec-2021. b) the largest cat in the game is Dutchie which just acquired GreenBits and LeafLogix -- and now they have three APIs to manage.

> beneficiaries of your standard are the actual farmers, labs, and retailers

Yes, this has been our entire focus.

> hacking some glue scripts together

We're talking about, literally, two simple JSON data models and some specifications in YAML. We don't have some mature venture-funded thing -- we have a farmer funded thing that's basically glue and some zip-ties.

absoultly. djb@ this handle .com -- please hit me up. We didn't see you when we started this stuff (c2014).

Also, your site https://opencannabis.info/ is offline.

edit: I see, you used to be BloomBox which looks like it died; perhaps that is how we missed each other.

> took fifty years

oh shit.

edit: we also made this: https://github.com/openthc/bong - Basic Object Normalization Gateway -- but it's like "draft" quality.

Right, and we all still need to agreed to the model of the data to put on said chain (this is the step we're on). Also, blockchain has the all-or-nothing requirement; our model does not.

> because no one is using this protocol

There is a small number which is but yes, that hardly visible.

> Why are you on HN asking what you're missing

It's a good channel for this type of feedback.

> Ask the people who you want to use it..

We've been working in this industry since 2014 and have talked with literally 1000s of cannabis licensees; they know they need this (regulatory obligation); when they have Metrc they hate it; and it doesn't carry the proper data forward; and folks get stuck with teidous manual data entry -- so they feel the pain every day. The customers we have on our hosted solution, one of our big selling points is trying to build the industry together with open specifications. When Washington state had another issue with their cannabis software in late 2017, an industry assocation made efforts to introduce this open specification at that time. Some of our competitors (not in Washington) have even purchased consulting time from us to talk about general system design for cannabis industry software -- it's where we also got some of that feedback for the existing models.

So, we are, and have been, and continue to be activily engaged in conversations with industry participants many of whom actively find us to bring their problems to; and we turn those into the virtious cycle customer feedback loop.

I know it's common in the "tech space" to have folks put the cart in front of the horse. I think our case does NOT do that; since 2014 a profitable customer driven company; starting the open-source efforts in 2016 in a constant, customer engaged method. It's why our competitors and our competitors clients literally call us for help.

> I'm sorry this is such a negative answer

Don't be; I'm here for frank feedback and appreciate yours.

Any ideas how to make it more clear that our desire is to have them participate in the specifications? Also, wouldn't the switching thing work both ways (or even in a mesh pattern, assuming multiple adoption?) (I think that's obvious but, maybe it's not?)

Yes. I only touched it briefly: ""we all need to share data (Lot details, Crop details, Product details, Lab Results, etc)""

Cannabis is heavily regulated, each tree, each lot, each lab-result, each everything in the system is required to have a unique identifier on it; it's a government required compliance thing. Cannabis businesses MUST do this.

But then BusinessA sends to BusinessB for toll-processing the plant-matter into oil. The lots, and associated data must be sent from one system to the others -- so they are both reporting the same identifiers (it's how the government is supposed to track inversion/diversion). And once BusinessB finishes processing, they may test it at a lab (BusinessC). Then BusinessB sells/returns some of the material back to BusinessA. A and B need the lab result data from C (it's like 170 data points, and a (signed) PDF). And when A and B package that material and sell to BusinessD (retailer) then the lot identifiers, product/package details, lab results, PDF, etc all need to be sent.

All that happens "seamlessly" (it's actually not, but a longer post) -- so for A,B,C and D it mostly "just works". And at the moment that "just works" bridge in Washington is going away. It's why we've had renewed interest in our project -- by BusinessA,B,C,D,etc -- even when they don't use our solutions. They are using competitors software, calling me asking if we've reach out to VendorM (we have, many times), then tell me they haven't discussed with their software provider, but then setup a meeting with businesses using a mix of the software and staff from the providers and those business owners say: "the fuck man, we shouldn't even be having this conversation; you guys should have figured this shit out already." (actual quote).

And at those meetings the other software vendors couldn't agree to agree; hadn't even looked at our proposal and could hardly even commit to agreeing that, in theory, interop was a generally good idea.

Data from Washington State: https://data.openthc.org/ (a small side project)

It's mostly supply side (B2B) deals, the data about crop and harvest they provide is worthless. I could add in all the retail transactions (I just don't load them every month).

You can get it too, FOIA request to the LCB, they'll send you a link to some zip files. They drop new bits every month.

Versus Sybase!? Not my experience (but its so long ago now). I feel this may be a just a comfort-zone switch for you. Like, Sybase is known and therefore already figured out and "better". All big systems take some ramp-up / comfort-building time. As others have said, the documentation, the community (still on IRC and email!) are excellent. And heck, digging in the code for information is not so terrible either (and it's huge, and C (and I don't do either of those things) and I still found what I needed). I'm sure you'll be used to it in short order. I've already poured you some Kool-Aid :)

Super excited to see more Pi powered growing. IME It works great for medium scale operations. One of my next objectives is a community sized greenhouse for veg, and a bunch of Pi automation.

Really fantastic news; their previous rules were allowing only local, concentrate/edibles. There was loads of excess flower biomass.

Colombia (Ecuador, Peru) have been more open to regulated cannabis. It's pretty exciting to watch the change.

Across Africa things are changing as well. The southen part is already seeing mutli-nation companies forming and pushing those governments to allow exporting of cannabis.

It took a farily concerted BigCo effort to make cannabis illegal all over this planet -- glad we're finally moving back in the right direction.

The vendor claimed that if the code was out it would be a security risk. The agency claims the vendor needs to protect their intellectual property rights. We have (some) visibility into other things our taxes pay for -- the software should absolutely be one -- expecially the regulatory compliance ones that drive enforcement action.

Edit: also, they were breached anyway shortly after launch (2018) and then an email went around offerting to sell the code and data from their entire system.