patcon

is a convergent evolution of a belief a sign of shallowness? It could just as rightly be an example of consilience, which means its a very high value perspective, as it's a convergence of perspectives from differing origins and methods (in terms of training)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consilience

> when multiple sources of evidence are in agreement, the conclusion can be very strong even when none of the individual sources of evidence is significantly so on its own.

Yes, it's a bit of a stretch to say LLMs are from independent origins, but just as much of a stretch to say any humans minds are (we have intensely shared linear compared to anything else)

Say what you will, but a million scientists and a network of sometimes-miscalibrated institutions (publishers, funders, universities, etc)... that feels less owned than maybe 4 companies having the edge on every [scientific?] field in the next few years...

Agreed. This human is the ray of sunshine I needed :)

I feel that there are some surprising blindspots within this thread, in sympathy to mathematicians.

Don't we as tech ppl understand "purpose"? You might not feel purpose in their work, but surely you see how when it comes for your own, you might revisit why it is such an imperative that we give AI all tasks for want of speed and efficiency?

Yeah, I can't tell if this is true fandom or really clever trolling of CloudFlare...

It's a distribution. If someone is moving down, then someone else is moving up relative to one another (which is how inequality is measured). Yeah, it might feel like one is more upward, but the net change can be equivalent if rich ppl move down, or poor people move up.

I'll take you up on that attempt to find a silver lining:

Previously privileged people having a hard time is maybe a good recipe for class solidarity, which is maybe something we could use in society. Maybe it will be good for us... collectively, if not individually.

Class mobility is good mostly because new money rising turns the soil of society -- a partial inversion of roles and positions, bringing [social] networks-on-high in greater contact with networks-down-low. An upper class moving down is in strange ways perhaps good for the "soil" of culture as well. It just has worse branding as a not-very-uplifting story. But it's better than rich-get-richer and poor-get-poorer, which is what's been happening a lot lately.

EDIT: But also, I suspect I would be "fuck-you angry' at reading this comment if I had a family depending on me.

I suspect it's the consequence of a depth-first search for truth, when reality is deep.

Imho narrative and metaphor and feeling hits more like the breadth-first mode. Lots of compression in pursuit of demarking a reality, whether or not everyone likes where a story does its compression. It takes visiting a lot places (and listening to how lot of signals bounce back) to drop a good metaphor, or craft a good story, that reaches and affects a large quorum of minds.

> the Pantone company, launched in 1963.

I had a dyslexic moment, and read this as 1693 (!), and then gleefully went to Wikipedia with the the intent to enter a delightful rabbit hole :)

Ah neat, is that related to k-nearest neighbor imputation too?

https://scikit-learn.org/stable/modules/generated/sklearn.im...

https://scikit-learn.org/stable/modules/generated/sklearn.me...

I do trust critique on this stuff from throwaways. The utter cheapness of manufacturing provocateurs against EU interests, mean you need to bring your reputation to be taken seriously with the potshots imho

STS Paper: 50 Shades of Open (2016) https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Fifty_Shades_of_Open

Recursive self-improvement. Look to the mathematicians for the intelligent patterns of response to such exponential circumstances.

If your scathing critique is "it's slow", you don't understand what's happening or what the reasonable expectations of risk are, because that's a vapid critique.

From what I understand, it has gone great if your atoms exist on the other side of the cold war, no?

Yes, but to be clear: Nuclear non-proliferation was regulatory capture.

I wonder if feeling and intuition will become the most prized, once explaining and sophistry toward any conclusion becomes something any bot can do...?

Right now, we think of feeling as second class, but I wonder if that's more because we have let it go feral, and left it unprotected from predatory actors and systems -- advertising, consumerism, even politics. We don't protect our minds from attacks on our feeling systems (e.g., we don't cover therapy as a public health measure), and so maybe we've just gotten used to giving a pretty poor assessment of its capacity.

If we institutionalized protection of intuition like we protect our ability to reason, maybe we would think more highly of that part of ourselves...

Love that link. Thank you. It's helpful to find others thinking this way :)

I work in collective intelligence, and been thinking about what surprise is, and why the ability to sense it is baked into each and every one of us. It's a feeling that moves our attention

I've been riffing on the idea of "mapping" collective surprise by gathering information on which statements give us the feeling. The feeling of something being dropped just beyond the "boundary of our knowing", which I think of as a shell we are each building through our models, like something pushed out into semantic space. I'm saying it funny, but it's really just about collecting data on what surprises people.

And in aggregate, maybe you could have a collective map of this shifting thing (really a map of the education system in the sweeping life-long sense), of the whole human cultural swarm. Surprise is the what we each feel as we cross a threshold that we can't easily return over. We forget today what surprised us yesterday. But maybe it's possible to learn something about the structure we build together (in knowledge), if we gather little radar blips on when we are passing over such moments.

Like if a collective over the course of a week, all has a moment of surprise as they learn a specific thing. If you could see that happening to your group, we could all know that we've all integrated (or at least encountered) something that can be built on.

This framework feels part of talking about it: https://openresearchinstitute.org/onboarding/A_B_U.html

Anyhow, just sharing in case it lines up with anything you think about :)

I guess all these programs are just ideas now, instead of a feat of engineering?

So more like a comment or idea shared at a social gathering, that anyone else might build on with their own in conversation. rather than the prior situation of code, where it is as if we were in wonder at the very fact of speech itself

At least that's my optimistic take. Though many might find the same thing a bummer.

There will still be poets, and those who admire them

And I've swapped Workers AI out of plenty of the example apps in the CloudFlare/agents repo on GitHub. I've gotten it working against a local whisperfile binary in like 5 minutes.

agents package is very easy to disentangle from CloudFlare once you've sorted celld, which itself is just a single binary to run

I'd say it's durable object specific. Both team deno and cloudflare (and many others) have been won over by the paradigm. Cloudflare is just the primary implementers of it as a strong example of an actor-based programming model at infra layer, but others have been trying to push it (Rivet, and TerseAI's durable actors, celld)

EDIT: like the whole enthusiasm is that they are buying them because they are generalizing a thing to be NOT a cloudflare thing

Maybe helpful context: https://x.com/rough__sea/status/2105853283617440032

> once you see it, you'll realize there's no point to traditional javascript runtimes in serving applications - only for build processes (eg bundling) and scripting.

I suspect he's come to the conclusion that the runtimes are now just a commodified build system that's been dialed in already, and the layer where celld sits is where the next unvalidated opportunities are

I do appreciate that it's not explicitly anti-competitive, but as a biochemist who spent a lot of time thinking about living systems, I am a bit concerned about a budding ecology that has perhaps collapsed <3

But I do have a strangely high trust in the individuals involved (you, Ryan, Sunil, others), even though I am a bit perplexed by CloudFlare's incentives or economics

Which is to say: I am choosing to be optimistic :)

Caveat, am commenting before reading, mind you -- just my general reaction to mergers in a world that never cleaves :)

EDIT: though this has also probably deflated a lot of the good-faith conversations I was having with gov-adjacent Europeans about celld being a boon for the moment of heightened European sovereignty, where EU data residency isn't necessarily considered enough distance anymore.

solid agree! cloudflare has inspiring offline tooling, for sure, but OSS def better

Love actor-based infra! can you compare/contrast this to cell.dev?

https://celld.dev/

https://tlockney.github.io/celld-book/

https://noite.now/ https://github.com/kentcdodds/kody-celld

https://celld-operator.io/ https://ewhauser.github.io/celld-operator/

I can't understand why so many people are replying like this. This part of the public service is for quality of life and security. If someone has more of those without the "service", of course they'd want to call it off and assume the risk.

Who cares if police don't show up during the 1 in 100,000 lifetimes chance you need a swat team, when you're getting harassed weekly.

I'm a little concerned, but I'm also glad they're publishing quick before the department of war starts making national security claims of related to using the knowledge for cryptography and/or weapons

I'm trying to be optimistic about the animal thing too tbh :)

It's beautiful, but the animals are not thinking this about us.

They structurally cannot understand what we are doing at the place where we hit our ceiling. Only with our highest technology (well beyond their understanding) do we have the tools to go back for them, and try to bring them along and interface better with us (re: recent work in animal communication)

I dunno, lots of activity around https://celld.dev the last few months. Deno team has been high on my radar more than ever since I discovered it:

https://x.com/rough__sea/status/2105853283617440032

https://youtu.be/G-v1hkQ8Sf8

https://github.com/stars/patcon/lists/awesome-celld

I get the sense that they'd just been brewing things around durable objects, and I'm excited for it coming to fruition

That's such interesting context. Thank you!